Love the show by the way I got to watch the the first episode last night I've
seen all four definitely a good job job I win
jeff has more time but I mean it was really incredible I found out a shit ton
of stuff I had no idea about um but I'm really curious how did this project come
about did Netflix approach you or is this something that you had in mind
yeah no no net Netflix did not approach me no that would have been nice yeah so
I mean the the origin origin of the show is very extremely simple as the show the
premise of the show is extremely simple you know I'm a huge toy collector the
oldest pieces of my collection I mean we're toys I actually played with
so basically playing with toys led to collecting toys so that's been going on
you know 37 38 years and I'm 41 and then I'm also
a huge history buff so you know I basically you know it's like I've read
you know all these books about world war two in the Civil War and world well you
know whatever and I there are all these toys that I collected and you know you'd
have to sit there digging and digging with Google to find anything out about
anything other than Star Wars or Barbie right and even Star Wars and Barbie
there was just so much stuff that was in conflict you would have two or three
people being interviewed over and over again and other people and even in those
interviews they would name other people who are a part of it but those people
who were named had never been interviewed so it was always interesting
to me that there was like you know 500 books about you know world war
2,000 books about world war ii and you know he-man it was a huge thing for
millions and millions of people all over the planet and there was nothing about
you and really um now there has and I just want to be clear there was a
documentary made before us there has been stuff about he-man there have been
books read about a men which we read but I really wanted to do a deep dive
into the history of the toy so that was the origin
I basically was pitching it for probably at least five or six years maybe more
and then I are you know what we're very known for stand-up comedy we produce a
lot of stand-up comedy especially for Netflix and because of that you know I
know a lot of the people that work there know I just get bugging them you know I
would conservatively say it was for a year and a half it might have been over
two years included in that five or six years by the way yeah and you know
eventually you know one of the executives there you know it was very
kind and you know actually listened to what I had to say in detail and thought
about it and said you know what here's the type of show we would do about this
and gave me direction as to what he thought would work on Netflix
we made a five-minute sales tape that basically showed how we would do a
series about this they loved the sales tape they asked us
for treatment we did a 20-gauge treatment that broke down the series
episode by episode and then also showed how the whole thing would work in the
long run and that's what finally did the trick and they bought the show that's
awesome I have to follow questions of that how big is your toy collection I'm
sitting in it right now I mean it's gotta be at least four or 500 at least
400 400 at least 450 unique objects and what's the bulk of it is it like
Simpsons characters I would say I mean without a doubt the number one biggest
portion is Star Wars then probably a close tie between
GI Joe and Star Trek and then right behind that would be a tie between
Batman and and transformers so no Barbie no
well I do it to Barbie dolls now yeah you know Barbie episode the two the
two things we covered that I knew the least about was Barbie and he-man yeah
and I bought my first he-man figure ever about five months ago and my first
Barbie dolls probably about three months ago so I definitely have Barbie now and
I don't know and I'm sorry I don't know who to but I know one of you said you'd
seen all four that would be me the Barbie episode yeah sorry it was
that that's Jeff is that yeah Jeff sorry yeah the Barbie doll that I bought was
the one that had the eyes looking forward for the first time ever that
everything I learned in these eight episodes that was probably in the top
three most interesting and powerful things I learned so that's the one I got
and then of course I just on general principle had to get Malibu Barbie right
of course and it's it's great that you brought that up because after watching
all four episodes and for our listeners the first four are on Netflix now they
cover Star Wars Barbie GI Joe and He-man and I was impressed with some of like
you were saying like being able to talk to the myriad of people that you talked
to some of the stuff that you guys uncovered I never knew and I'm an avid
collector of toys and loved the history of it and stuff like that I did not know
that obviously you know not collecting Barbie but I did not know that Barbie
didn't look forward until the 80s I thought that was really surprising
another thing I thought was really surprising in the Star Wars Episode when
they were talking about how specifically the the Ewok line was repurposed for the
Robin Hood Prince of Thieves line in the 90s like all those toys were just kind
of got new stickers slapped on them in a new coat of paint and we're just and
repackaged for that and the same thing happened to actual Star Wars toys they
would took just random toys and slapped a Star Wars sticker on it and repurposed
it and resold it I didn't know that that was such a big thing in the toy industry
was this recycling of toys yeah it's so funny you bring that up you know in a
couple minutes ago we made that sales tape that got the show greenlit and in
the meeting where we pitched the show there were audible gasps from everybody
when we showed the gomorian guard became friar talk yeah and that is the oh we
redid it of course in a bigger fancier way yeah but the only thing that
literally happened in the sales tape that occurred in the series was that
gomorian guard Friar Tuck thing so I'm so glad you brought that up but yeah that
that literally like I said we updated it and made it pretty but that we did that
almost shot-for-shot so I'm so glad you brought that up that's really funny it's
it's it was just so interesting to me because you know I think about
especially a property like Star Wars or you know even go towards GI Joe where
there are just hundreds and hundreds of characters there for thousands of
different versions of toys and that kind of stuff but then the industry kind of
eats itself and kind of repurposes you know itself like it's it's it's very
very that's why I think a show like this works so well and you're gonna have four
more episodes coming out in 2018 you're right what can you talk about what toy
lines those will deal with yeah its Transformers Lego Hello Kitty and Star
Trek excellent excellent and I feel like I mean those are those
eight I think are probably some of the biggest most iconic and I know and
obviously that's what the show was going for but there's so you guys I think are
touching upon a niche that it touches everybody whether you grew up in the 50s
or the 80s you know like action figures toys dolls they were a part of your of
your everyday play and I feel like I feel like this show the show that you're
creating the toys that made us I could go for multiple seasons are you are you
looking towards that I mean yeah yeah I mean that would be that's the goal and
the dream you know I I feel like there's still a lot of iconic lines that we
haven't touched like Hot Wheels matchbox oh yeah
Power Rangers My Little Pony I mean without a doubt the number one
top of the list Ninja Turtles yeah and then you know
through Facebook and social media one of the other than Turtles the number one
toy we keep getting asked to cover if we get any more seasons is WWE WWF toy I
didn't even think of that either but as soon as you said yeah dawns on me the
amount of toys that cuz I remember being a kid in the 80s and I remember having a
Hulk a Hulk Hogan action yeah III definitely had one of those but I mean
you could collect all of them but now with the rebranding and WWE and and all
the WCW and all these other other factions the toy lines I got I never
even never even dawned on me but that is that's that's amazing that's so many
toys ya know we you know very similar to the he-man episode yep a as they think I
told you I I never played with he-man I didn't know anything about him until
about a year ago but similar to that I don't know anything about wrestling I
was never interesting but because I've seen it come up so often I've been
googling it and very similar to he-man if not even more so the people involved
with making the toys are wonderful characters yes we're not just going to
make an episode because it's a big brand right it has to have interesting
characters like which again I feel like he-man is the best example of the first
four of just large you know the people that made he-man
yeah we're that interesting is He man and you can argue it's not more so
oh my god yeah like that the I think that I not to throw this word around but
I think that's probably the most controversial episode of the first four
just because the the handful of people that you interview about creating he-man
and they kind of are all fighting for who actually created he-man and that was
that was interesting that there is that kind of behind the scenes
of this that's underbelly of this industry did you find that with other
toys as well yeah right all your interview yeah I mean yes I mean the the
thing that I learned having made the show is that there this there isn't like
with movies and books there's usually one person maybe two you know
responsible for something but in toys it doesn't work that way the business isn't
structured that way she saw with the GI Joe show even the guy who originally
came up with the GI Joe figure to be the male version of Barbie you know he
didn't just go out and make it he had to bring it to Hasbro yeah and Hasbro had
to involve you know dozens of people so it really is common the he-man thing and
some people might absolutely disagree with me but in fact I'm sure a lot of
people will disagree with me but the thing about the he-man controversy is
the people involved they were just for whatever reason that toy line had a lot
of real characters gravitate towards it so it you know if if all you know about
he-man comes from our episode if you were to watch there's another
documentary which I haven't seen that was made about he-man and there's been a
couple books written the controversy is actually a lot crazier and overblown
than what we showed in our episode we really kind of toned it down and we did
that for two reasons one reason was that's just not the kind of show we're
making you know we were trying to make a show that was about the fun good you
know joyful history we didn't want to sugarcoat or hide things or cover up
things so we did acknowledge it but we didn't we definitely could have played
it up into this much bigger thing but at the end of the day you know when we
interviewed these guys who supposedly hated each other but they really don't
you know these people that all work together some of them for decades what
we really found out was like the big overall story was like oh you stole
you saw that but once you really got into it and you talk to these guys and
you asked detailed questions like we you know the other thing like we would
interview people then interview someone else and sometimes we would go back to
the first person because we had learned more like Marty Abrams we interviewed
him I think three times Wow so you know Mark Bevers who is in the Star Wars
Episode you know we interviewed him you know he didn't where is he he's in Palm
Springs we went there twice so with the he-man of it all you know we
really started asking nuanced questions and what we learned which is in the show
is you know one guy sort of invented he-man but he does he admits and we even
put this in the show he admits he didn't invent Skeletor right but he like he
takes credit for the beginning but he freely admits he didn't and once we told
the other people that he had said that people were like oh well that's kind of
true you know other shows are done we like try and stoke fires as I go she
said this he said that this one we just really wanted to get to the essence of
the story and have it be enjoyable we didn't want people turned off by you
know anger rage you know that by the way we truthfully really didn't find right
and I thought that was what was like you said before what was interesting about
this show is you guys are are not only you know coming from a place of the toys
that made us but really involving the characters that created these toys and
and uncovering some of those stories which i think is really interesting one
of the questions I wanted to ask you was each episode which I thought was an
incredible choice but I'm kind of curious as to where the choice came from
each episode starts with a very well-put-together reenactment of a
iconic moment of the toys like in you know Star Wars they bring the guy in to
see the Millennium Falcon for the first time in his eye his jaw hits the floor
and it looks real like you guys did a great job on where did that where did
that idea kind of come from you know it's a great
it just was always there I've done a lot of you know I produced a lot of TV shows
and you know to be completely it's funny no one's asked me this before it's a
great question here's my answer to that question is best in like I said I
haven't really thought about this before because like I said I've been working on
this for over half a decade um I think a lot of the inspiration came from a I've
produced a lot of television and that's just kind of what we do and you know
it's a great way to start an episode and you know it just brings people in and it
also says to the audience from the first second hey we put a lot of time and love
into this show so you know give it a chance but the other thing is I'm gonna
be honest like I just I don't know why I and you know this you know what and I'm
sorry I'm rambling like I said I haven't thought about this in a long time
but like I said I'm a big history buff and I've seen a lot of documentaries
about history and they're always doing reenactments of history and I really
think the origin of this idea I just wanted to recreate ILM that's
awesome nah tell em since I was a little kid and I am the building you know we
filmed in the building where it's a place where the real ILM
was it we didn't shoot exactly it's in the same building basically the same
building is divided into like three to five little sections that are all the
same yeah where ILM happened we couldn't film in there because it's just there's
too much heavy equipment in there that could be moved for what is in there now
it's like a company that makes big fancy signs but we filmed like within the same
like under the same roof two sections down so yeah I just wanted to recreate
ILM and it it you know if you I'm looking at a picture I have right now
the real ILM and the ILM we built and you know even from five feet away
looking at this picture I mean you really can't tell the difference we
matched the same you know what people were wearing
no it's not you cant pull a James Cameron with like Titanic by any stretch of the
imagination but it's like you know you know somebody you know there were like
five people in the famous picture that we recreated you know there was a red
guy if there was a guy in a red flannel we add red flannel you know we relive
the whole thing there with the Millennium Falcon the whole Death Star
docking bay I mean that was all there I mean no that was CGI I'll tell you right
now Falcon CGI but we had a real model there that was built out on I'll tell
you right now I'm an incredibly huge Star Wars fan and I did a double take
when cuz that was that's the first episode and I was all excited for the
show to come out and I put on that first episode and it starts with that
recreation and it and you guys did such a good job I've seen all the behind the
scenes of Star Wars and all of that you know the old school photos of them you
know at ILM and stuff and it really made me do a double-take like is this actual
footage no it looks too good to be actual footage like out like like it's
too HD but but you guys did a really good job and you did that for every
episode which I thought was like you said really fun really brought draws you
into it and I got almost like a guy's discovering his religion for the first
time right exactly I gotta ask though and Dustin you
haven't seen this at this episode yes but spoiler the beginning of the Barbie
episode the recreation with Jack Ryan they're filing off the nipples is that
actual that's real that actually happened
twisted it's so like cuz you guys do that as what's great about that little
scene is it another reenactment and if you've watched Star Wars you already
kind of know where the show is going so you're like okay I get what this is but
you do that with no regard like there's no explanation afterwards there's no
nothing and like I started watching the episode and I was like wait go back to
that I thought that was really well done what we tried to do with all the
openings was give a story that very quickly you know explained the essence
that toy but also especially with Barbie explain the essence of those two people
so it was just a great story because it said a lot about Ruth it said a lot
about Jack and it said a lot about Barbie and you know again you really
want to start the show off you know every episode in a way that pulls people
in and as you know that was you know pretty jazzed about that yeah yeah no
that's that's that's pretty pretty pretty great I thought you might have
some insight on this idea music fashion and pop culture it kind of seems to
repeat for example like 15 years ago every girl was wearing bell-bottoms and
now we see synth music coming back we see comic books especially in the the
theater just blowing up and we're seeing action figures come back even down to
the company that we're familiar with Sideshow Collectibles they make the
biggest most badass action figures I've ever seen in my entire life and it's all
becoming popular again it kind of seems like do you do you believe that we're
revisiting the 80s or is it just a result of people who were from those
eras are now running the industries I think it's two things one of them kind
of cool the other one not so cool no I think you hit the nail on the head I
think part of it is people like me are turning 40 and now you know have more
you know like I said I was trying to sell the show for a long time you know
took me a while to sell it so and maybe that was lucky because the show sold
when it was more relevant than added sold you know five six or seven years
ago yeah so I think that's a big part of it and I also think that connected to
this point nostalgia just in general it's a very common thing that happens to
everybody brought thanks to YouTube and social media there has never been an
easier better time to quote-unquote get your nostalgia fix just because you know
you you know when in a tea you know is literally unless you
like the Library of Congress or the TV Museum and Staten Island or whatever you
couldn't watch a commercial from the 50s right now you google 1980s commercial
and you can watch every commercial pretty much that's ever been made so
that's the first thing that's the cool one the uncool one the second one is
accurate or not accurate I'm not going to get into this debate but I think
there is a perception that we as a country and we as a people were better
in the 80s and 90s than we are now and I think that these toys in many ways
nationally are just reminding people and they I mean I will say I think that's a
bit ridiculous I think a lot of it is when you're a kid you don't understand
like you say the word terrorist when you're eight years old for a bad guy I
don't know what that means know what I mean so you know and who you
are at eight years old is this very innocent soul and when you're 15 let
alone 25 it's not that your innocence has gone because you've done bad things
necessarily but your innocence is gone because you know what a terrorist is you
know venereal you know what you know you know you probably know someone who's
been very sick with cancer so when you see these toys and these things come
back it just reminds you of who you were at a time in your life when you might
not think about it but you weren't dominated by all these kind of negative
things that just our normal course of living on planet Earth
and during any time yeah it's kind of like the the ugly side of the coin to
nostalgia are our security blanket we're just kind of trying to grasp on because
it feels safe but it's it's just it's just almost unhealthy nostalgia I think
that is a cyclical argument though I mean like you go back to the 80s and you
know the parents in the 80s would think fondly back of the sixties
in the 50s and be like that was the greatest generation you know like that
well in the country was good so that's entirely accurate and you know one of my
favorite things that almost cracks me up and we didn't put it in the show because
we had to be very careful especially with Star Wars and Star Trek to make
sure that we were always talking about the toy and we didn't get into the movie
right what are the things about the toy that was in the first cut of Star Wars
you know the first kind of Star Wars was almost two and a half hours long yeah we
had to cut hot out of it but you know one of the things that everybody forgets
about Star Wars to the point you're making is when George Lucas wrote it and
when the audience saw it the the rebels were too Vietnamese and the Empire was
the United States yep but when I'm three years old I didn't understand that to
put it mildly fact I would probably in my 30s by the time I understood what
that was about huh so I mean you know that's a great
example of the adults made something that was completely lost on the kids
yeah I'd say I didn't even know that oh yeah no it's in in like it goes back to
your your what you said earlier you know like when you're an eight-year-old so it
was George Lucas sympathetic to the Vietnamese you know this is not a theory
of mine not very well documented saying that George Lucas is repeatedly spoken
on and but if that translates to all these different Toyland you know because
like you were saying like you're in eight-year-old playing with these toys
and and the larger picture is lost on you um like you brought up you know like
an eight-year-old says the word terrorist but doesn't really know what
it is I always tell this story well actually when I was eight years old
I got in trouble with my mother and she told me I had to stop watching GI Joe
because I called her one of the names that GI Joe called Cobra and it was like
a slimy terrorist or you know like something so buzz word you know like
like like they were yelling at Cobra at something and I got mad at my mom
because she took my she took a toy away or something so I called her that
name and she said where did you learn that from another GI Joe and she's like
I couldn't watch GI Joe for like a month
if you think about it that that would be a great way for George Lucas to show his
view on the Vietnamese War without being so controversial that people just
totally look past it and just just think oh you're siding with the enemy instead
he's giving you a totally brand-new story to give you some idea of what it's
like to sympathize with your enemy which is actually really really cool
yeah we touched upon it a little bit earlier you are a producer of not just
this show but also you are the president of comedy dynamics which produces some
of my favorite comedy specials and all sorts of other places and I wanted to
ask you as someone who is not only producing all of this this amazing
comedy but then you know has a project like the toys that made us like you said
you know it took you years to really pitch this and get this done it's a you
know a pet project of yours we asked this question of every guess we have on
the show what fuels you to actually keep going out there and finding these new
projects and creating incredible entertainment for the rest of us to
enjoy you know it's a very simple thing it's there's there's no greater feeling
that I'm aware of outside of my family there is no greater feeling than
somebody telling you an emotional reaction that they have to something you
helped create so you know from people telling me they love the star wars
episode of the Barbie episode - you know they love one of the comedy specials
that we made it's just it is the great and again I've been doing this for
almost 20 years but the feeling that some guy in Kentucky or some girl and
you know Madrid you know watch something that you were a part of there's no
greater feeling and you know just talking to people about it is you know
it it's the greatest feeling in the world
you know being you know just being a part of that and you know it's funny I'm
friends with a heart surgeon hmm and I'm absolutely fascinated by what he does
you know and you know he's fascinated with what I do and you know it's just
really interesting because from my point of view this guy is literally saving
lives obviously you know and he's doing some crazy shit with scalpels and
microscopes and cameras and lasers I mean it's unreal what he does and and I
you know we talk about it all the time but the thing which I'm very fortunate
in the career path that I chose is you know if you're a surgeon you know you're
really working with people one at a time and if you're lucky maybe they'll send
you a you know Christmas card a year later but when you're a TV producer or a
movie producer you know you know I get emails and social media and texts and
whatever all the time you know from people seeing stuff that I did 15 years
ago and it's it's it's the greatest feeling in the world and it that is
without a doubt the single most important driver that I have that's not
like that is there any comedian that you haven't
worked with that you'd like to work with I mean the main two are dead so you know
unfortunately I didn't get to work with Carlin I never even met Carlin I never
even saw and also Richard Pryor you know I never met him or even saw him so
that's very depressing to me but if I'm not to take a cheesy kind of BS answer
to your question the two people that I am dying to work with more than anybody
without a doubt that I haven't worked with would be Dave Chappelle and if he
ever does stand up again which I think he will would be Eddie Murphy so those
would be very very very not very high on the list that would be tied for first
place and I don't work with Chris Rock as well he's someone who have met about
time but I've never worked with him but he's another one who literally you know
can read the phone book and make me laugh so yeah it would probably be those
three nice that's awesome finally I I wanted to kind of end on
this question because the word producer is thrown around all the time I mean you
see it in the credits of anything and that you consume in entertainment and
I'm curious as a producer of a comedy special does your job differentiate is
there is there a big difference as producing a comedy special as producing
something like the toys that made us is your job like more involved it other
than the fact that we're dealing with something that ultimately will be on a
television set in people's homes there's I mean and the fact that we're using
cameras hmm there's really nothing in common okay
and you know this is where I'm glad you asked the question because you know I
just I really want to give a shout out to Netflix because they like we're
famous for making stand-up specials all we've done for Netflix before this is
make stand-up specials yeah so the fact that they trusted us with eight episodes
of series which is financially and politically exponentially a more
dangerous greenlight for an executive yeah they they took a huge risk you know
allowing a couple yeah and don't get me wrong we've done lots of stuff that
hasn't been stand-up but for Netflix we had never done anything that wasn't
stand-up and this was also everything we've done other than stand-up was pure
comedy so you know we've done sketch shows and whatever but this really and
yes I know we injected a lot of humor into every episode and that's definitely
because of you know my comedy leanings but this was not a comedy and Netflix
really they just let us do what we wanted to do they gave us great like I
said the first cata Star Wars was almost two and a half hours long and they very
gently helped mold a show that you know would not only appeal to the point oh
one set of fans right there's nobody even me
I don't want to see you if I didn't mean even if I mean I don't want to see their
two and a half hour episode of my Star Wars toys right Jeff would ya right yeah
well they they were just so supportive you know they gave us notes sometimes
that we push back on and they always said hey it's your show and they you
know 98 percent of their notes we listen to but 2 percent we push back on and
they always respected it and we absolutely made a better show because of
the guidance that we got from them that's that's so cool
well I think you guys made something that is pretty special because it not
only is very entertaining and filled with nostalgia obviously for people that
grew up with these toys but I think it it really tells the stories that are
worth telling like you said or like we've talked about in this episode you
know I personally like yourself didn't really know much about Barbie and you
know that entire world is is brand-new to me now you know like knowing all that
different the different stories that came came from that and each episode is
chock-full of that kind of stuff so I'm very excited for the next four episodes
that are coming out in 2018 and I really hope that you know the response is as
big as it possibly can be so you guys can make multiple seasons of this and we
can just get every every toy ever yeah thanks again so much Brian for taking
the time to talk yeah thank you thank you appreciate it
this has been fueled by death cast a Deathwish coffee company podcast
production thanks for listening
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