(electronic music)
- Hey, everybody, Trina here with The Healthy Me podcast
and I'm really excited because this topic
is something that's really dear to my heart,
especially as I get older and I really feel like
my body needs more time to recuperate
and the only way that I can really find downtime anymore
is when my head is on a pillow.
So, I really want to learn how I can own my sleep habits.
So, I brought Christine Hansen
who I got the pleasure of meeting recently.
I think we've actually met twice,
but we were recently together.
I think so.
(laughing)
She's going, "What?"
Were you at the Mindshare two years ago
or was this your first one?
It was your first one. - No. I was a newbie.
Oh, so you were the newbie, okay.
So, we met once.
But I love Christine and she's got some amazing ideas.
She is the Sleep Like a Boss Woman
so we're gonna be talking about how
you can sleep like a boss.
Let me tell you guys a little bit about Christine,
so she is a holistic, international
sleep expert, speaker, and sleep coach.
I dream of being a sleep coach.
(laughing)
She is the creator of The 5 Step Sleep Like a Boss Process
focusing on sleep foundations,
gut health, thyroid issues, nutrition, and hormones
that help people to fall asleep and stay asleep
without having to rely on anything external
like sleeping pills.
As a certified functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner,
Spencer Institute certified sleep science coach
and nutritional therapist,
Christine combines emotional, lifestyle,
and biochemical stress management
in programs for her clients.
Her expertise has been featured
in numerous international publications
including The Independent, The Guardian,
Business Insider, Readers Digest,
Huffington Post, Elite Daily,
and Entrepreneur On Fire, and more.
Christine is a mom and she's a number one bestselling author
of her book, Sleep Like a Boss:
The Guide to Sleep for Busy Bosses
and she's an award-winning entrepreneur
of the coup de coeur award
of the Creative Young Entrepreneurs Luxembourg Awards
and it's really important to let you guys know
that she lives in Luxembourg.
But she's fluent in English, German,
French, and Luxembourgish, am I saying
that right? - Yeah.
Luxembourgish.
- Aah!
Christine, welcome to The Healthy Me.
- Well, I'm so glad to be here.
I can't wait to be chatting along with you.
- So, really quick, what time of day,
like it's one o'clock Eastern Time.
It's not the middle of the night,
I'm not keeping you up, am I?
- No, it's seven p.m.,
you'll save me from my daughter's bedtime
so I have my husband wrestling her down upstairs.
- Oh, I was just thinking we're talking about sleep
and it's probably like one a.m. for her,
disrupting her sleep - No, no.
- Well, first of all, tell us why sleep is so important.
We have all heard that we need
to get X amount of sleep a day,
why is it so important?
- Yeah, so this is a really good question.
And especially because it was one
that wasn't asked for a very long time.
Like, research was so behind.
They never asked the question why it was important
so it's really only been in the last 30, 20 years
that researchers really stepped into it.
So, what the other question would rather be
why is sleep not important?
Because they found that it is literally affecting
every single aspect of your body positively, right?
So, it is super important for your body
in terms of cell generation, your hormone rebalancing,
all of that jazz.
That's why you heal so much when you're sleeping.
And it's also important for your mind,
so because you have dreams,
it's helping you to handle your stress,
to make sure that things that
didn't make sense during the day,
you might be able to organize that,
things that upset you to digest that,
so it's really the whole 360 package.
- Awesome, and I know, because I was
in the medical field as well, a nurse,
and years ago when the residents
would have to work 24-hour shifts
or whatever they were, 36-hour shifts, I don't remember.
- The more, the better, they may say.
- Yeah, basically, they were just sleep deprived
and walking zombies and trying to take care of people
and cognitively, the end of their shift,
they were worthless, which I could totally understand.
I know, when I'm sleep deprived,
because I've done the 36 hours without sleep,
and you just feel absolutely miserable
there's nothing more that you can say.
Your body craves sleep, it needs it.
It's regenerative like you said.
Your mind can actually problem solve and restore itself.
But, how does sleep work?
How does it work?
- So, there's different things that belong to sleep.
So, the number one thing I would talk about
is probably why we are actually sleeping,
so what is triggering our sleep
and then the structure of sleep itself.
So, the first part of why we actually go to sleep
is because of two factors
and they're completely independent of each other,
which I find fascinating.
So, you have your circadian rhythm,
or your biological clock.
And you have your sleep pressure.
So, the biological clock is a little bit
light-dependent, right?
So, your body is reacting to light
it's also reacting to body temperature
and your sleep pressure is basically a hormone
that keeps rising and rising and rising throughout the day
making you feel tired in the evening
similar to like, hunger.
You know, when you eat, you're back to zero
and then it starts building up
and with sleep it's the same.
You sleep and you're at zero and then it's building up.
So, that would be why we start to get tired
and why we drift into sleep.
And then the second part of it
is that sleep is not one chunk.
Sleep is divided into sleep cycles.
So, you basically join one cycle to the next
and one cycle is around 90 minutes
and an adult has around four to five sleep cycles.
And within each sleep cycle, we have different phases.
And nowadays, we talk about
light sleep, deep sleep, and REM sleep.
And each of these has a certain purpose.
Deep sleep is where most of your body work is being done,
so you can imagine that like having your car
going into maintenance every day.
And then the REM sleep is where the mind healing takes place
so everything has its purpose
and these phases have different lengths in each cycle.
What happens, though, is that some people
are really great at joining those cycles one to another
so they will wake up in between,
but it might just be like, for a second,
they might just turn around, adjust their pillow,
maybe have a glass of water and don't even realize,
or a sip of water and not even realize that they are awake
and other people have a little bit
more problems joining those together.
- Really quick, when you're talking about the sleep cycles,
when people take a sleeping pill
or medication that causes them to sleep
like pain medicine and things like that,
does that put them in a certain,
or keep them out of a certain sleep cycle?
So, like, they're never in the reparative,
they're always in this?
- Yeah, so the body takes whatever it really needs, right?
But it does influence the deep sleep
because a sleeping pill is going to sedate
certain areas in your brain.
And that can actually be different
from person to person, by the way.
But it's basically more of a sedation.
So, what happens very often, though,
is that when people have anxiety
and struggle to fall asleep,
sleeping pills can help them to just calm down
and then they will slip into natural sleep at some point.
However, I find that people who really have more than that,
they will still wake up after three hours
and they're going to be absolutely exhausted.
So, it's not going to give you the same
regenerative sleep as the natural thing.
It's just not doable to duplicate that.
But, at the same time, when I work with people
who are dependent on sleeping pills
and they're so scared that they are
literally on the brink of death
because they never get true sleep,
then your body takes really great care of you.
It's going to just plot what it needs to survive.
Doesn't mean that it's healthy though.
- Yeah.
What are some of the reasons people
don't know why they're not sleeping well
or why would there be reasons people aren't sleeping well?
- So, I think, when people Google
"why am I not sleeping?"
most of the time--
- The number one Google answer is--
- (laughing) It probably is.
But, which I've never done to inspire myself, obviously,
but usually what you get as an answer
is that it's habit-related, most of the time.
So you either have sleep disorders
which is really where I'd say go to a sleep clinic,
you need to have this checked out,
like sleep apnea or restless leg.
Those are things where you have to get
a sleep science doctor really look at you
and also look at what is going on with you
in terms of like, the physical, physiological stuff.
But, afterwards, the only thing that is usually talked about
is habits and sleep hygiene.
So, bedtime routines, blue light,
all of these things that are like,
these exterior impactors, which can absolutely be the cause.
But what nobody really tends to look at
is that your body is also connected to sleep.
So, sleep is not just your mind,
it's not just outside influences,
it's very often something that's within you.
So, what I find is a very common problem with my clients,
I would say 80% of the time,
is that they have thyroid issues.
So, the thyroid is a huge factor
so it's one of the first things that I check out
and then hormone imbalances usually go hand in hand
because they live a very stressed life
plus not enough sleep is not leading to regeneration
so their body is basically breaking down
and you have everything a little bit de-regulated
so that has a huge impact.
And then, because that is happening,
your gut is basically being under attack all the time,
so leaky gut and parasites that are nocturnal, by the way,
so they have a great time in the middle of the night,
those keep my clients awake as well.
So, it's really things that nobody
is really thinking that much about.
And then, of course, nutrition.
But I think, actually, a lot of my clients
have pretty good nutrition, which is even more frustrating
because they think they're doing everything right
and then it's like, yeah.
(laughing)
- Well, that's interesting.
Yeah, it could be more physiologic.
- It's both.
- It's both. - Really both.
Because if you're physiological weak,
it's difficult to be resilient
and if you're not resilient, you are stressed
and you're going to attack your body
so it's really the two.
- What's your method of working
with people about their sleep?
What types of things do you do?
- So, I really do like a 50-50 program.
50% of the time, it's geeking out on science
so we will look at the test results
and we will have protocols and supplements
to help them re-balance the body.
And 50% it's just them, right?
So, where we talk about their lifestyle,
what's going on in terms of their life in general,
what's their relationship like, if they want to do that,
or I give them different tools that they can try
and see what works best for them.
But a lot of the time, it's about figuring out
who you actually are, which sounds very weird,
but we tend to be super harsh with ourselves
and we tend to have these voices in our heads
that are not really ours, that are dominating our life
and not really letting us be who we are.
And once you get that done, it's a whole new world.
(laughing)
- The sleep just happens.
- Yeah, it's beautiful.
Sleep is really one of the first things that comes back.
Afterwards, they're like,
"But I'm still having my tummy rumbling at three a.m."
or something, "I need this treat and that trick,"
so that's fun.
- Oh, my gosh.
Talk a little bit about caffeine and sleep
because I know a lot of people you get that,
probably that hormone that rises.
I don't know when it peaks,
but I'm sure around three p.m. in the afternoon
it's up there pretty good
and your energy level's coming down at that same point
so Starbucks has their logo everywhere
and you just stop there and you're like,
"Give me a grande whatever,"
or a venti if it's one of those days
and you know, then you try,
you know you should get eight hours of sleep
so you try to go to bed by nine or ten.
So, talk about caffeine and sleep.
(laughing)
- Yeah, I love that topic, really
because once you understand, it makes so much sense.
So, let me geek out on here
a little bit - Geek out, yeah.
- Let's do this.
So, when I talked before about sleep pressure,
see how I prepared that.
You have a hormone that's called adenosine
that's the hormone that is basically
creating that sleep pressure and that is rising.
And coincidentally, around two, three a.m.
We have also a drop in our body temperature
which is making us feel more tired.
So, it doesn't really have to do with your food
because when you eat too much, you're going to say,
"Oh, it's because I ate too much."
And if you didn't eat anything, it's just
"Oh, I'm so weak."
So, it doesn't have to do with your food that much
so it really has to do a lot with sleep pressure building
plus the drop in temperature.
Now, the interesting thing is that
the molecules between adenosine and caffeine
are very, very similar.
So, what is happening is your hormone is coming along,
your adenosine is building up
and it has a little receptor that it needs to dock onto.
Now, caffeine is kind of the big bully
and it's basically blocking that connection.
So, adenosine basically has to wait
until your caffeine molecules are being
flushed away through your liver.
And the speed at which that happens is very individual.
It's a genetic, kind of predisposed enzyme
that is either very good at getting rid
of your caffeine molecules very quickly
or it will take a little bit more time.
So, for some, it will be eh, just a little peak
and then it's going to be fine
and for some it will take a long time
to get rid of those bullies, so to say.
So, what is happening, though,
is your adenosine is not going to stop being produced
so basically, it's piling up in front,
you know, waiting for caffeine to make its way out
and once it does, you get this backlash.
All of these adenosine molecules waiting,
docking at the same time,
and you're going to get another crash
which is why so many people go from
coffee to coffee to coffee.
And that would by why, because you feel even worse, right?
And that's also why, I love power naps, for example
because they will actually help you to rejuvenate,
so they're going to help you to get
that adenosine a little bit down
versus caffeine that's really just
stopping you from becoming more miserable,
let's put it that way, or making you jittery.
- You're not gonna stop making the adenosine.
It's gonna continue.
Do you sometimes make more than others?
I'm assuming, when you're exhausted
or when you've had a lot of stress
you might make more than other times
and then that's why you feel more exhausted
some days than others?
I'm assuming that's how it works with your body.
- The thing is, usually when you sleep well,
your adenosine levels start at zero.
However, if you didn't get enough sleep,
you already have a certain
level that's going-- - Of buildup.
- Exactly, so it's like a backpack
that already has a brick in it
that you didn't get rid of last night
and so that's what we call Sleep Debt.
- Yeah.
What about those people that say,
"I only need three hours of sleep a night?"
Do you believe them?
- No.
(laughing)
- That's not enough time, yeah I could tell,
that's not enough time to repair, right?
- No, it's not enough time to repair
and the interesting thing is that
they don't even know how under-performing they are,
let me put it that way.
So, there was just an article,
we're now in September 2018,
so there was just an article released very recently
in Fast Company by a study that was looking at people
who were sleep deprived for two days in a row
and then people who were sleep deprived,
or who were basically woken up after six hours of sleep.
And obviously, the people, you know
you talked about the doctors after two days,
they were like, exhausted.
They were asking them to do simple tasks.
Math questions were super hard for them,
focus was such a pain, like physical pain even
and the six hour people did well for 10 days
and afterwards, their cognitive performance was the same
as those who had two hours of sleep deprivation.
The big difference was, though,
that the six hour people didn't notice.
They thought they were fine,
but when they were tested on their cognitive performance,
it had radically dropped.
And that's the danger of this chronic sleep deprivation
where people think, "I can do great
on six hours or five hours of sleep."
They don't even notice that they are much slower
and what is worse, their potential is not even there
and they just don't know.
So, you'll survive, but that doesn't mean
you are living, you know.
- It was an eye opener for me
when I started using some different
devices that track your sleep.
So there's a bunch of them out there.
I had one that was on my bed and
it would track how much I've slept,
and you know, you've got 'em on your phones
and all sorts of things.
But what was an eye opener to me
was I would go to bed at a certain time
and on my clock, I would get eight hours of sleep,
but on my device, I only had six or six and a half.
And I was shocked because I was like,
"Well, I'm going to bed and I feel like
I'm falling asleep right away,"
but it didn't dawn on me that
I really wasn't falling asleep that quickly.
And so, for me, it's like, oh my gosh,
to get eight hours of sleep,
I really need to be in bed for nine hours, right?
Do you recommend devices like that?
Do you think they're helpful for people or no?
She's like, oh no.
(laughing)
- I could probably get a great sponsorship deal out of this,
but no, actually, I don't.
- You don't recommend them, why?
- It really depends on how you use them
but in general I find they stress people out so much more.
And here's the truth:
We sleep differently, right?
The only time when every human being,
except for some with a sleep disorder,
are paralyzed when sleeping is during our REM phase.
During all the other phases, we move, you know, like
some move more, some move less.
I sleep like a stone.
Like, when people go on holiday with me, they freak out.
They're like, "You just lie down
and you wake up exactly the same way."
- I'm kind of like that too.
I'm very similar to that.
- Right?
But you have other people who just move a lot, you know,
so they breathe differently,
and it depends on so many different factors.
So, and also sleep is not, you're not unconscious.
You actually react to things.
You react to noises, you'll react to movements,
you'll react to your pets,
the newborn baby is going to wake you up
when it's just like "Eh, eh"
but you have a huge truck rolling by
and you just sleep, so,
it's not an unconscious state,
so that's why I think these trackers
can be super subjective because they don't know.
And I just think it goes more to real sleep study
than a gadget like that.
That's why I'm torn.
I might say to someone who goes to bed too little
to try it because usually it tells you
that you sleep less than you do to freak them out.
But otherwise, I would never suggest them to anyone
who's already worried about their sleep.
Never.
- Gotcha.
Perfect.
I don't use one right now, but in my mind I know
that I don't fall asleep right away,
so when I'm going to bed and I know
I have to get up in eight hours,
I know I'm only probably gonna end up
with seven hours of good sleep, which is okay.
I'm okay with that. - That's okay.
Absolutely, and that's my other thing.
Eight hours is just because, you know,
if you have five sleep cycles,
that's more or less the average,
seven and a half, actually.
- So, you still recommend,
the recommended is really seven to nine?
- Yes, yes.
So, for me, it's really, do you wake up
and you feel really great?
You've got it.
- Yeah, and I haven't done this,
I do it occasionally when I'm really feeling exhausted
even after eight hours of sleep,
and especially after a trip, like after going somewhere,
I will sleep until I wake up,
at least once, you know what I mean?
Because that can reset your body,
even if it's on a weekend.
Obviously, if you have young, young children,
that doesn't work very well, I remember those years
of being sleep deprived all the time, you know?
But, when you can, set the date,
once a week or whatever it is,
to sleep until your body wakes up
and then you know your sort of on track
and if you can do that once a week
I know that makes me feel so much better.
- Absolutely, and I think you have to be
gentle with yourself, too.
It's just not doable sometimes.
I just had a client walking out of here
who's really anxious about his bedtime
and especially, last weekend he had
a very romantic dinner with his girlfriend
but he was freaking out because he was like,
"We need to get home, I need to go to bed.
If I don't go to bed on time,
I'll have so much more trouble falling asleep,
I'll be so tired because I have to wake up."
And so, basically, when he has dinner,
like a lush, amplous dinner, he's going to
have trouble falling asleep for two, three hours,
which is not unusual, it really depends on your digestion.
When you have that, it's just,
don't plan anything the next morning
and just take it slow, maybe even plan for a naptime
in the afternoon, that's totally fine.
But you're right, sleeping in once a week,
it gives you a little bit of this jet lag syndrome,
but I'm totally for it if it's once a week.
- And really, sometimes, it's really
your body will wake up 15 minutes
after you would've set your alarm for anyway
but that 15 minutes means that that's what your body needed.
- Yes.
- So, it doesn't mean sleeping 'til noon--
- No. - everyday.
- I find we can't do that anymore.
I used to be so good at that when I was a teen
and now sometimes when our daughter isn't there,
we're like, "We can sleep!"
and it's like at 9 a.m., we're like, "Well."
- I know, and then you're angry, you're like, "What?"
(laughing)
- I know.
But she's gone. - I know.
Christine, I'm so glad you joined us.
I know you have a course that listeners can go to,
tell them about that 'cause we'll have the link
in the information.
- Yes, so I'm super proud of this
because I developed this course
because one-on-one coaching is not necessarily for everyone.
So, I developed my whole method
into an online course that you can access at Teachable,
so the link will be there.
And you basically have short video lessons.
I love short, so everything is around 15 minutes.
It's five modules, the five pillars
that I build my business on.
And it's basically me teaching you
exactly why I use each pillar
so that you understand what your body is telling you
and it has protocols, shopping lists, supplement suggestion,
it has sleep hygiene tips.
It actually also has a bonus
where you have a two week program
that is helping you with your nutrition
with shopping lists, meal plans, everything included.
That's just the bonus.
So, essential oils, pretty much everything,
so it's a fantastic course.
- Any little nuggets that you can give us for parents
and I'm talking younger kids,
maybe not newborns because that's almost impossible
but, like the age group of three to seven
where they don't want to go to bed,
you know, that age group.
Any little nuggets of --
- Yes.
It's tough, people, like I'm right in there.
But I think as, let's say a baby from
three months up to 12 most likely,
one of the key things is not to let them get too tired.
A tired, overwired kid has basically a cortisol spike,
so it feels like they have this scratchy,
grandma jumper on and it's just too tight
and even though they're tired, they can't sleep
because they have a cortisol rush when they're overtired.
And that's, forget it, there's no way
that your kid is going to sleep.
Don't even try.
Like, literally, I know when that happens to our daughter
which is when she has this little cat nap
just before, when you're in the car, and you're like, "No."
- Yeah, yeah, that fear like,
"I know, I know what's coming."
- I know.
And it's just like, I'm gonna let her play until 10
because there's no way she's going to sleep.
So sometimes you just have to, yeah, compromise.
But that would be number one,
don't let them get overtired.
- Yeah, perfect.
All right, Christine, I appreciate you coming on
so we can all sleep like a boss.
I wanna sleep like it's my job sometimes.
(laughing)
- I'm very good at it.
(laughing)
- I am too.
I love sleep, I love power naps.
I don't get as many as I would love to have,
but it's so awesome to be able to
take that rest off your body and your mind.
So thanks for joining me, and guys,
we'll have the link for her course
that you can go check that out in the copy.
So check for that.
And thanks for joining us here on The Healthy Me.
(electronic music)
Thanks for watching.
Make sure you subscribe to keep learning
how to create your healthy self.
See you next time.
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