>>> WELCOME BACK TO "MORNING JOE".
JOINING US NOW, EPA ADMINISTRATOR MR. SCOTT PRUITT.
>> GOOD MORNING, GENTLEMEN. >> YOU'VE SEEN REACTION AROUND
THE WORLD FROM THE WITHDRAWAL FROM THE PARIS AGREEMENT.
COULD YOU SUMMARIZE TO OUR VIEWERS THE DECISION MADE TO
PULL OUT AND WHY WE DID IT? >> IT PUT THIS COUNTRY, OUR
COUNTRY AT A DISADVANTAGE ECONOMICALLY, DESPITE THE FACT
THAT WE HAD TAKEN SEVERAL STEPS WITH RESPECT TO RED REDUCING TH2
FOOTPRINT. WE'RE AT PRE1994 LEVELS WITH OUR
CO2 FOOTPRINT. FROM 2000 TO 2014, WE REDUCED IT
BY 18%. WHAT PARIS REPRESENTED WAS A
COMMITMENT TO ACHIEVE THINGS THAT WERE UNACHIEVABLE.
THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, WITH EVERY STEP THEY TOOK STILL
FELL 40% SHORT OF THOSE 26 TO 28% TARGETS.
WHAT THE DECISION WAS ABOUT WAS SIMPLY SENDING THE MESSAGE WE'RE
LEADING WITH ACTION, NOT WITH WORDS.
WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE WE PUT AMERICA FIRST WITH RESPECT TO
THESE DECISIONS AND CONTINUE TO EXPORT OUR INNOVATION AND
TECHNOLOGY TO THE REST OF THE WORLD WITH RESPECT TO HOW TO
REDUCE THE CO2 FOOTPRINT. >> IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT
MORE JOBS ARE CREATED BY SOLAR ENERGY, NEXT WAVE THAN BY THE
COAL JOBS YOU'VE CITED? >> I THINK WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS
THAT THE EPA AND U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE IN THE BUSINESS OF
PICKING WINNERS AND LOSERS. ALL JOBS MATTER.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE COAL SECTOR AND OUR POWER GRID, ENERGY
SECURITY IS A BIG DEAL. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ABILITY TO
STORE SOLID HYDROCARBONS ON SITE TO GENERATE ELECTRICITY, DRAW
DOWN COAL AT 30% TODAY, THAT CREATES VULNERABILITY.
ATTACKS ON INFRASTRUCTURE. >> DO YOU BELIEVE BROADLY THAT
CLEAN ENERGY CREATES MORE JOBS THAN COAL?
>> THE LAST SEVEN MONTHS WE'VE HAD A GROWING JOB MARKET
INCLUDING COAL. FOURTH QUARTER LAST YEAR IN THE
MINING SECTOR, INCLUDING COAL. WE SEE ACTUALLY OPTIMISM IN THAT
SECTOR. HERE IS THE DEAL.
WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON THE SECURITY OF OUR GRID AND MAKE SURE AS
COMPANIES GENERATE ELECTRICITY, THEY GENERATE IT FROM A VARIETY
OF DIVERSE SOURCES TO MAINTAIN THAT SECURITY.
>> THE COAL INDUSTRY GENERATED 4 MILLION JOBS AND LAST QUARTER 17
SO WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR NUMBERS?
>> INCLUDING SEVERAL INDUSTRIES HERE?
>> LAST I CHECKED YOU MINE COAL. >> OTHER MINING INDUSTRIES, TOO,
COPPER. >> ACROSS A BROAD SECTION IN THE
MINING SECTOR. BUT, WILLIE, THERE'S OPTIMISM IN
THAT SECTOR. THERE'S INVESTMENT TAKING PLACE.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT JAPAN, THEY HAVE 45 ULTRA CRITICAL COAL
GENERATION FACILITIES. WE HAVE ONE.
WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THAT AS A NATION.
AGAIN, TO FOCUS ON ENERGY SECURITY AND STABILITY.
>> YOU SAID JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, AND REPEATED AGAIN YOU
HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT HE BELIEVES CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL
OR WHETHER OR NOT HUMANS HAVE IMPACTED IT.
HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT THAT?
>> I SAID OUR CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN ON THE MERITS AND DEMERITS
OF THE PARIS DEAL. >> IN YOUR CONVERSATIONS YOU'VE
NEVER TALKED TO HIM ABOUT WHETHER CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL
OR IMPACT BID HUMANS? >> THE FOCUS OF OUR DISCUSSIONS
WAS AND HAS BEEN ON THE MERITS AND DEMERITS OF THE PARIS
ACCORD. AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS,
LOOK, HE TOOK INPUT FROM A VARIETY OF HIS CABINET, VERY
INFORMED, THOUGHTFUL APPROACH. IT TOOK WEEKS OF OOH EVALUATING
THIS. HE PUT AMERICA FIRST WITH
RESPECT TO THIS DECISION. >> AND CLIMATE CHANGE NEVER CAME
UP IN THOSE MEETINGS? >> I WANT TO SAY THIS TO YOU.
HE ALSO EMPHASIZED IN HIS SPEECH THURSDAY THE IMPORTANCE OF
ENGAGEMENT. THAT'S WHAT'S BEING MISSED IN
THIS. THE PRESIDENT DID NOT EXIT
PARIS. HE EXITED PARIS BECAUSE IT'S A
BAD DEAL AND WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE ENGAGEMENT ON CO2
REDUCTION, PART OF THE CCC AS YOU KNOW.
WE LED THE WORLD WITH RESPECT TO LOOK AT THE DECISION MADE IN
PARIS, RUSSIA, INDIA, CHINA -- INDIA DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE ANY
STEPS UNTIL THEY RECEIVED $2.5 TRILLION OF AID.
CHIEN RA DIDN'T TAKE ANY STEPS UNTIL THE YEAR 20306789 WE FRONT
LOADED ALL OF OUR COSTS, COSTING UP TO 400,000 JOBS.
>> SO AT ITS CORE IT'S ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE HUMAN
IMPACT ON IT. >> THE FOCUS OF THE DISCUSSION
WAS ON THE MERITS AND TEE MERITS OF WHAT PARIS SOUGHT TO ACHIEVE.
WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THE WHOLE DISCUSSION, WHEN YOU LOOK
AT WHAT WAS ACHIEVED. >> MR. PRUITT, IT'S A SIMPLE
QUESTION. MR. PRUITT, IT'S A SIMPLE
QUESTION. HAVE YOU EVER TALKED TO THE
PRESIDENT ABOUT WHETHER HE BELIEVES CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL?
DOES HE STILL BELIEVE IT WAS A HOAX LAUNCHED IN CHINA?
>> I THINK, JOE -- >> WOULDN'T YOU LIKE TO KNOW?
>> I THINK WHAT'S IMPORTANT, JOE, IS THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS
SAID WHEN YOU MAKE DECISIONS ON ENVIRONMENTAL DECISIONS
INTERNATIONALLY THAT WE PUT AMERICA'S INTEREST FIRST.
>> I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND I AGREE WITH THAT.
I AGREE WITH THAT. >> THE PRESIDENT SAID THE
CLIMATE IS CHANGING. CONFIRMATION PROCESS --
>> WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET AN ANSWER FROM YOU.
I AGREE, WE SHOULD ALWAYS PUT AMERICA FIRST I DISAGREE WITH
GETTING OUT OF PARIS BECAUSE IT'S VOLUNTARY.
THE GOALS SET WERE VOLUNTARY. BUT I JUST WANT -- IT'S
IMPORTIMPORTANT FOR AMERICANS T KNOW -- IT'S IMPORTANT FOR
AMERICANS TO KNOW WHETHER THEIR PRESIDENT BELIEVES THAT GLOBAL
WARMING WAS HATCHED AS A CONSPIRACY THEORY IN CHINA.
DOESN'T THAT MATTER TO YOU? >> WITH RESPECT TO THE VOLUNTARY
CONTRIBUTIONS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE 26 TO 28%, WE, WHEN
YOU LOOK AT DOMESTICALLY THIRD PARTY LAWSUITS, YOU'VE HEARD
ABOUT THE LITIGATION WHERE THE EPA HAS SUED AND COMPELS
REGULATORY RESPONSE. >> RIGHT.
>> WITH THE FRAMERS OF THE PARIS ACCORD UNDERSTOOD IS THAT
AMERICA WOULD TAKE REGULATORY STEPS TO CARRY OUT THAT 26 TO
28% REDUCTION. WHEN WE'RE WITHDRAWING ENERGY
INDEPENDENT ORDER, THAT CREATES A GAP OF ALMOST 60%.
IT CREATED EXPOSURE WITH RESPECT TO OBLIGATIONS.
>> SO, I'M SORRY, I'M SORRY. I'VE GOT TO STOP.
I WANT TO STOP IT. THIS INTERVIEW HAS TO STOP IN
ITS TRACKS UNTIL I JUST GET A YES, NO ANSWER FROM YOU ON
WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT'S IMPORTANT THAT AMERICANS FIND
OUT WHETHER THEIR PRESIDENT BELIEVES THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS
A CONSPIRACY THEORY BASED OUT OF CHINA.
>> THE PRESIDENT HAS INDICATED, JOE, THAT THE CLIMATE IS
CHANGING. I INDICATED DURING MY
CONFIRMATION PROCESS THAT THERE'S A WARMING TREND WITH
RESPECT TO THE CLIMATE. AND, MOREOVER THERE'S A HUMAN
CONTRIBUTION TO IT. MEASURING THAT WITH PRECISION IS
VERY DIFFICULT. THE REAL QUESTION IS, WHAT DO WE
DO ABOUT IT? WHAT WE'VE DONE AS A COUNTRY IS
LEAD THROUGH INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY.
AS I INDICATED SINCE THE YEAR 2000, A REDUCTION OF OVER 18% IN
THAT CO2 FOOTPRINT THROUGH HYDRAULIC FRACTURING, HORIZONTAL
DRILLING. YOU DON'T HEAR THAT FROM THE
ENVIRONMENTAL LEFT. WE OUGHT TO BE EXPORTING THAT SO
OTHER NATIONS CAN GET TO NATURAL GAS.
>> THE POSITION YOU LAID OUT IS MUCH DIFFERENT THAN CLIMATE
CHANGE IS A HOAX BY PERPETRATED BY THE CHINESE.
>> SO HUMANS HAVE A HAND IN IT, AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO MEASURE
HOW MUCH THEY'VE HAD A HAND IN IT.
>> I'VE SAID THAT CONSISTENTLY. >> IS THAT WHAT THE PRESIDENT
BELIEVES? >> THE PRESIDENT HAS INDICATED
THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING. I THINK YOU'RE TRYING TO GET
AWAY FROM THE MERITS AND DEMERITS OF THE PARIS ACCORD.
>> NOT AT ALL. >> NO.
>> WHAT WE'VE DONE AS A NATION TO ADDRESS THE CO2 FOOTPRINT,
PARIS HAS ALMOST BECOME SYMBOLIC.
IT'S MOSTLY WORDS. IT TRULY IS.
THIS PRESIDENT IS ABOUT LEADING WITH ACTION NOT WORDS.
THE PAST ADMINISTRATION TRIED TO REGULATE CO2 AND FAILED.
>> IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT PARIS. YOU ALSO REPEALED THE CLEAN
POWER PLAN. >> BECAUSE IT'S NOT CONSISTENT
WITH THE CLEAN AIR ACT. >> YOU COME ON THIS SHOW AND
HAVE BEEN PROMOTING COAL AS AN ALTERNATIVE FUEL.
SOLID FUELS. >> DIVERSIFYING.
>> TOUTING THE FACT THAT YOU'RE INCREASING COAL JOBS EVEN THOUGH
IT'S SMALLER THAN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
YOU'RE PROMOTING FUELS AND POLICIES THAT WOULD WARM THE
PLANET, NOT STOP THE WARMING OF THE PLANET EVEN AS YOU AGREE
THAT THE PLANET IS WARMING AND IT IS MAN MADE.
>> DESPITE THE FACT THAT WE'VE HAD MORE ENERGY REDUCTION AND
REDUCED THE CO2 FOOTPRINT. IT IS NOT A WISE THING TO LIMIT
THE NUMBER OF RESOURCES. IT CREATES VULNERABILITIES.
WE NEED MORE DIVERSITY FROM COAL, NATURAL GAS, OIL, HYDRO,
NUCLEAR, ACROSS THE BOARD. WHAT WE OUGHT TO BE TALKING
ABOUT IS HOW WE BURN COAL, HOW WE BURN ELECTRICITY USING
NATURAL GAS, USING THE LATEST TECHNOLOGY, INNOVATION TO REDUCE
EMISSIONS. THAT'S WHAT OUR EXAMPLE HAS
BEEN. WE'VE REDUCED IT 18 PLUS PERCENT
THROUGH ACTIONS NOT WORD. >> AND WE HAVE.
I THINK ONE OF THE GREAT UNTOLD STORIES OF WHAT THIS COUNTRY HAS
DONE IS THE FACT THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE ACTUALLY MADE VERY
GOOD PROGRESS OVER THE PAST TWO DECADES.
WE DON'T REPORT ABOUT THAT ENOUGH.
I DON'T THINK WE HAVE. BUT LET'S JUST SAY I AGREE WITH
YOUR -- BARACK OBAMA'S ALL OF THE ABOVE APPROACH, WE HAVE TO
BE DIVERSIFIED, THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERY OPTION IN FRONT OF
US. AND I ALSO AGREE THAT MAYBE
PARIS, THE IMPACT OF PARIS PULLING OUT HAS BEEN
EXAGGERATED. I PERSONALLY THINK IT'S MORE OF
A DIPLOMATIC PROBLEM THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY, THOUGH, TO THE FACT THAT OF ALL THE THINGS
THAT YOU'RE SAYING HERE THAT WE AGREE AND DISAGREE WITH THAT
ONLY 28% OF AMERICANS THINK IT WAS A WISE MOVE TO GET OUT OF
THE PARIS ACCORD, ACCORDING TO AN ABC NEWS/WASHINGTON POST
POLL? 28% SUPPORT THE DECISION.
59% OPPOSE IT. COULD THAT BE THAT THIS
ADMINISTRATION IS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY WHEN IT COMES TO
THE CLIMATE? >> JOE, WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT
IT, THERE ARE SEVERAL SURVEYS. THIS IS NOT RECENT.
THIS GOES BACK SOME TIME WHEN YOU ASK PEOPLE TO RANK ISSUES
MOST IMPORTANT TO THEM, THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE RANKS WAY DOWN
THE LIST. WHEN YOU ASK THEM ARE YOU
WILLING TO PAY ANYTHING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, IT RANKS
EVEN LOWER. WHAT PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IS
THAT THE DECISIONS MADE IN PARIS IMPACT THE REGULATORY RESPONSE
HERE, WHICH IMPACTS THE COST OF ELECTRICITY TO EVERY AMERICAN
ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I MEAN, OUR PRICE PER KILOWATT
IN THIS COUNTRY IS FAR BETTER THAN EUROPE, FAR BETTER THAN
GERMANY. >> WHY DO SO MANY AMERICANS
OPPOSE THIS, THOUGH? >> I THINK IT'S WHAT I SAID
EARLIER, JOE. IT'S BEEN A BELIEF THAT PARIS IS
SYMBOLIC OF WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE CO2
FOOTPRINT. THEY DON'T KNOW THE FACTS THAT I
TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. WE ARE DOING A LOT ALREADY,
REDUCING OUR CARBON FOOTPRINT THROUGH INNOVATION AND
TECHNOLOGY AND THEY'RE NOT AWARE OF WHAT STEPS WE'RE TAKING.
I THINK THAT'S THE PRIMARY REASON.
>> IF YOU LISTEN TO STEVE RATTNER HAS BEEN SAYING AND
WHAT'S BEING REPORTED IT APPEARS THAT YOU ALL ARE MOVING AWAY
FROM STEPS THAT WOULD ACTUALLY HELP ON THE ISSUE OF CLIMATE
CHANGE. >> I'M NOT SURE HOW.
BECAUSE WE'RE STILL PART OF THE FRAMEWORK CONVENTION.
WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE, AND THE PRESIDENT SAID LAST WEEK,
ENGAGEMENT MATTERS. INTERNATIONAL DISCUSSION ON THIS
MATTERS. AND I THINK, JOE, WHAT THE FOCUS
NEEDS TO BE UPON IS REALLY EXPORTING WHAT WE KNOW HERE,
INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY TO ASSIST THOSE COUNTRIES.
SHORT MEMORY, I THINK, MANY TIMES WITH RESPECT TO THE
ENVIRONMENTAL LEFT, GO BACK TO 2015 WHEN THIS DEAL WAS CUT.
THE HEAD OF NASA SCIENTIST SAID THAT THE PARIS ACCORD WAS A FAKE
AND A FRAUD. THE GENERAL COUNSEL CRITICIZED
THE MISTAKES MADE IN PARIS LARGELY BECAUSE CHINA AND INDIA,
THE LARGEST POLLUTERS IN THE WORLD DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE ANY
STEPS WHILE WE DID. >> THEY ALSO CRITICIZED IT
BECAUSE IT WAS A VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT.
THEY WANTED IT TO BE A MANDATORY AGREEMENT.
CHINA AND INDIA ARE DIFFERENT CASES, OBVIOUSLY.
LET'S COME BACK TO THE U.S. WHEN YOU GO AROUND SAYING WE'RE
CREATING ALL THESE COAL JOBS, WHEN YOU GO AROUND SAYING WE
REPEAL THE CLEAN POWER PLAN, WHEN YOU GO AROUND TALKING ABOUT
THE USE OF FOSSIL FUELS FOR CENTURIES TO COME, YOU ARE, IN
EFFECT, PROMOTING GLOBAL WARMING.
THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING. ALL THOSE THINGS CONTRIBUTE TO
GLOBAL WARMING. YES, WE HAVE REDUCED OUR CO2
EMISSIONS BUT WE NEED TO REDUCE THEM A LOT MORE.
I DON'T HEAR YOU TALKING ABOUT THAT.
>> SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN GERMANY GOES ALL RENEWABLE?
WHEN THEY GO AWAY FROM NUCLEAR AND ALL THE FOSSIL FUELS, WHAT
HAPPENS TO THE COST OF ELECTRICITY?
>> GERMANY HAS A TERRIBLE -- >> LOOK AT THEIR PRICE PER
KILOWATT. >> THEY HAVE A TERRIBLE POLICY.
I WILL AGREE WITH YOU IN THAT. >> GROWING ECONOMIES IN THIS
WORLD, WE HAVE NOTHING TO BE APOLOGETIC ABOUT.
WE HAVE A STRONG, STRONG APPROACH TO REDUCING EMISSIONS
AND HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT FOR 15 -- 2000, 2014 AS I INDICATED.
WE HAVE NOTHING TO BE APOLOGETIC ABOUT.
AT TIMES, THE MESSAGE IS NOT REALLY RECEIVE BID THE AMERICAN
PUBLIC THAT WE HAVE MADE TREMENDOUS PROGRESS.
>> WE'VE MADE TREMENDOUS PROGRESS.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT GOING THE OTHER WAY.
>> USING DIRTY FUELS MORE THAN WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING.
>> THE PAST ADMINISTRATION BROUGHT US A MIND-SET THAT WE
COULD NOT BE PRO-GROWO-GROWTH AO PRO-ENVIRONMENT.
AND THAT'S JUST SIMPLY WRONG. WE'VE ALWAYS, AS A NATION,
EMBRACED GROWTH IN JOBS, GROWTH IN THE ECONOMY, BEING A GOOD
STEWARD OF OUR ENVIRONMENT. AS AN EXAMPLE SINCE 1980 WE'VE
GROWN OUR GDP SUBSTANTIALLY IN THIS COUNTRY BUT ALSO SEEN A 65%
PRODUCTION IN THE POLLUTANTS THAT WE REGULATE UNDER THE CLEAN
AIR ACT. WE DO IT BETTER THAN ANYBODY IN
THE WORLD, GROWING THE ECONOMY AND BEING A GOOD STEWARD IN OUR
ENVIRONMENT AND CAN DO THAT IN THIS SPACE AS WELL.
>> WHY DO YOU THINK REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE,
FORMER CEO, SPEAKING OF OIL AND GAS OF EXXONMOBIL, SUPPORTED
STAYING IN PARIS? >> I THINK HE, JUST LIKE MANY
VOICES ACROSS THE CABINET, IS THERE TO HELP INFORM THE
PRESIDENT TO MAKE A DECISION. OUR JOB IS TO COMMUNICATE TO
THEM THAT AMERICA IS NOT GOING TO BE DISENGAGED.
WE'RE GOING TO ENGAGE. WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE THE
DISCUSSION. WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO LEAD.
>> DON'T YOU THINK THE FORMER CEO OF EXXONMOBIL KNOWS WHAT'S
GOOD FOR THE AMERICAN ECONOMY? >> "THE NEW YORK TIMES" HAD A
PIECE OVER THE WEEKEND TALKING ABOUT THE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS
THAT WERE EUPHORIC AT THE DECISION THAT THE PRESIDENT
MADE, REPRESENTING ABOUT 99,000 JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY.
PRO JOBS, PRO GROWTH FOR THIS COUNTRY.
HE SAID HE'S GOING TO MAINTAIN ENGAGEMENT AND WE'RE GOING TO DO
THAT AND FOCUS ON INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY AS OPPOSED TO TARGETS
THAT CAN'T BE MET. >> THEY'RE PULLING YOU OUT OF
HERE TO GO. MR. PRUITT, THANK YOU.
>> SAFE TRAVELS. >> THANK YOU.
>>> SENATE INTEL COMMITTEE MARK WARNER JOINS US TOMORROW.
AND WE'LL BE ON CAPITOL HILL THE MORNING AFTER JAMES COMEY
TESTIFIES. AMONG OUR GUESTS, NANCY PELOSI
AND SENATORS JOE MANCHIN AND SUSAN COLLINS.
MORE MORE AHEAD THIS MORNING.
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