♪ There's a woman bigger than life ♪
♪ There are senses that only she has ♪
♪ There is a magic and difficult days ♪
♪ And a stage that belong to her ♪
♪ To the angels diva is an empire, on the stage diva is hysteria ♪
♪ She is all a love song ♪
♪ Viva rejoice, Viva Victoria, Aphrodite ♪
We went back, with '90s and Israeli pop music
That even success around the world - Dana International
Hello Hi, welcome. Shai Kerem
What are you, director, producer, how to call you? -All together, your interviewed
Wow, OK
The almighty -Listen...
Usually people like me that come from the Israeli rock music
And general rock music
Always a bit downplayed pop music
And now when I look at this time I do a corrective experience
And I say - pop was important too
Maybe even more important. So I want to talk about you
About your start especially, we are talking about the '90s
Not what happened after the Eurovision, All the way to the success of this hysterical
It was difficult for you?
Firstly I want to correct you
You spoke about pop and rock
So when you say "we"
The people of the rock in our country
I have to tell you that this separation between rock and pop music
And this disrespect, this is something that happens only in Israel
If I speak about you, Yoav Kutner,
I'm sure that you have very comprehensive knowledge
about what had happened in rock music
sub-genres of rock
but when it comes to pop I'm not sure you really know...
what is going on.
If it succeeded, I know it.
It only happens in Israel.
For example, if I would invite you to some TV show
A TV show about rock music, of course, I would invite you
But I think only in our country, people like you
that specializing with rock, are invited to express opinions on pop.
OK -If it were up to me I would do a complete separation
among people who know and love the rock
they have the right to speak about the rock
And only in our country we don't have a separation -So I will answer you
In this TV show I try to "fix" my attitude to genres that I'm not an expert on them
Trance music, Hard Rock and pop, etc.
I'm not sure that should be some kind of fix
You also speak like it was a period of suffering and disadvantage
I had hysterical success
I had hysterical hits. -That's what I talking about
The problem begins and ends with people like you,
that speaking about the subject, not the audience.
We should make the distinction between the taste of the audience
and how the audience accept the pop, and those that should
present it to the audience, people like you.
Here there is a problem Okay, it's not a problem. Here we correct it.
I think that what Dana says is very true
It is no coincidence that Dana's really big breakthrough
occurred in the early 90s,
when occurred in Israeli society all sorts of changes.
One of the changes was the dictatorship of "Kutner"s people
It's not just you...
But the dictatorship of a few people who control the media
and decide what the audience will hear, slowly began to crack
in the early 90s
with the beginning of Channel 2, with the start of local stations
with the start with listenning to the audience, to what people really want to hear
and I think that made same changes.
There is another reason
in the early 90s Rabin (P.M of Israel these years) came to power,
the peace process began, and we had new atmosphere that accept more joy.
Naomi Shemer once said, "My joy is my protest".
Dana came with joy, but underneath this joy she had a very big statement.
Right -It was happy with a statement
Now I want to talk about it. That was an introduction, so let's start.
When you started, where? what? What did you plan to do? What did you want to be?
Like who did you want to be, who did you adore?
I did not think such thoughts big
If I would think such thoughts, I would think years ahead
I did not dare to think years ahead when I started with the first single
I did not think about "being like"
Because it's really...
We used English and Arabic and Hebrew
And made funny songs at the beginning and nobody did it before
So I was not really identified ...
But did you try to be like a star you adore?
I like Ofra Haza in childhood...
She did not dare to think. When we released the first song
So the thought was "there is a hit on the radio" And after it was second hit
We did not even dare to think "We see something big, like those stars"
This is something that emerged and happened down the road.
I have to say that I mainly liked artists from abroad.
I had no one to identify my musical taste
In Israel has always been pop
Called it "halfway" in the 80s and 70s, called it "Disco", you know
Who, for example?
Yardena Arazi, what type of music she does? No, abroad ...
Oh, someone I loved. I was addicted to Sydney Lauper, I grew up on Dead Or Aliyev
Boy George, Eurythmics
When I think about "Saida Sultana", the first song you released
Combination with Arabic
Today we often hear it in the Israeli music
Arabic songs. Mind Church band and Idan Raichel and ...
In 90s it was quite unusual
Enter Israeli pop with lyrics in Arabic.
That's what I say, through funny and parody music
And if they really listen to the lyrics and read them
there's a pretty serious topics that if you check it out closely
and read between the lines you will have much more to understand
But yes, European ethnic dance.
At first sight it sounds very funny
this thing and how it started
Again, behind this happiness was also pain, humor
It sounds very funny at first sight. I think it got that way
Again, because it came out "from the underground"
Night clubs...
Clubs, where it had a very large audience
And it suddenly came out into the mainstream. It was another voice
A new form of expression. A new way of talking.
Everything else was there. That actually meant...
That was "fresh" thing
But moreover, this was a means of expression
That gave new expression that we never had before
It comes with a new language, a new expression.
But beyond that, the character and the type of music...
the songs with Arabic, was even more extreme statement
Because that was unacceptable in pop music, then in our country.
See? I say something to your advantage. -Listen,
For me Arabic is second language in our country, this beautiful language
I really love the Arabic language. -How it received in the Arab countries?
I know that it succeeded but it was illegal to say you are Israeli
Listen, it was hysterical success in Egypt in 1995-96
Millions of cassettes have been sold
We went to Egypt to shoot a fashion production
and we checked it a bit, that was really scary
If you would take this success
and makes it a success in Europe or in the United States it was completely different
Only because you are Israeli?
Because I am Israeli and my personal story, but first of all, Israeli.
Everything about Israel is banned there.
The success was first of all musical
One morning we saw on the first page of the newspaper
"Dana has sold 6 million cassettes in Egypt"
We discovered nobody were allowed to say who is the singer ,and to acquire the tapes
They had to say a code word ... - "Shushu"
"Shushu", come the shop and say "Shushu", then the seller gives the tape from the hiding place.
So royalties did not come to...? -No...
Maybe Shuhu took them
But the really good thing about this story, You really see this cliche
Music connect between people from different genders and languages
It was really nice to see.
In Egypt, after we were there, they said that Dana is a Mossad agent
Whose purpose is to destroy the Egyptian youth. -This is true...
Today we can tell it's true...
Listen, I want to show you something from the beginning.
In a videotape
Yes, we are completely in 90s.
I think it's your first time on TV.
You show up now? -I appearing all over the country.
A lot of people saw me. I'm sure that some of the viewers too
In big disco clubs -And you are going to release an album?
The album comes out in about a week.
A week? so first of all, good luck to you. -Thank you
And what song we hear now?
We will hear a cover version of Yes Sir I Can Boogie
I'm not sure everyone knows but they will learn to love him.
I want to ask you again ... -Oh my god!
Looking back a bit, I'm not saying that it is designed so. But looking back
I think one of the things that really characterized your beginning
It was never just music
It was part of ... -a package, all together
A package of all, the character, the personal story, the provocations
The music in all the world began to be, you know ...
In the '90s the world "gets smaller" and... computerized music.
If you think about it, in the 90's music became much more commercial
A lot of ensembles of "One hit wonder" And such things ...
Such an industry that ... -The music industry began.
When I look at myself here, it's just a different person.
The speech, the immaturity
From head to toe, the speech, the thinking ...
If I look at it 20 years ago
I did not ever think I'll sit with you for 20 years after, and talk to you about music.
I think that the different is that here you did not success yet
Right -This is the beginning
Then I was hungry and frightened
Moreover, I look at this with great excitement I also recalled
Not only the issue with "20 years after"
We really did not dare to think about a career.
It was released a song, and make it success.
Release another song, and make it success.
It was not even to think about the next album.
It was scale of a one song. -Why not? Why not? What is actually the...?
Listen, you're talking about Israel completely different.
Wherever we came with a minus. -Why?
Listen, this is not a normal thing.
First time in Israel that such a thing happens, someone like me
with the personal story, the kind of music
And we knew it was not going to be easy.
Is the transexuality issue that bothers?
Of course! -The transexuality...
It's everything
Also if a person has a 30 cents length nose is something that...
But when it comes to pop marketing, this actually worked in your favor.
Because it was special thing
We saw how it worked in your eyes. No, I'll tell you why
The reason it did not work for me, was the music... -It makes good marketing
It makes good marketing
Look, everything has a minus and plus.
It is good marketing, it gives you a lot of attention
People invite you to TV show and you are interesting, but on the other side
from people who work in music, you can get
Some kind of contempt
and look at you with a little dislike
because it comes with all this attention.
Moreover, we are talking about a completely different Israel
Israel has changed immensely thanks to Dana and what she brought and made
We're talking about Israel in 1992
Here in your videotape we see a marginal TV show
Channel 1 refused to invite Dana to appear at her beginning
A few years later they sent her as Israel representative to the Eurovision Song Contest.
What do you mean, "refused"? -They told they can't display such a thing on TV
The way it happend,
It amuses me like you're saying, "Today is an advantage"
The road was extremely hard.
But the goal is to be special -No, but you know...
The goal is to be special, but when you...
We are talking about a different age, totally different people
One TV channel that... -Breaking a taboo, in short
Breaking a taboo!
♪ There are some girls, there are some girls, Which go with everyone ♪
♪ If they see a nice guy ♪
♪ They're ready to fly immediately ♪
♪ With him, even to Eilat ♪
♪ To Eilat ♪
I think one of the interesting things
When I look at you from your beginning
On one side all the...
Provocations, even in your songs and music videos, the giant banana riding.
That it works abroad, obviously, all sex symbols...
Things like that
On the other hand all the time You tried to make very Israeli things
Right -it's "There are some girls",
it's "Going to Petra" about the peace treaty, it's a song of Yona Wallach...
-I have this part too
There is no contradicts between these parts.. I have this part.
That part, also doing more calm songs
I'm not reviewing a song by the way is going to be taken
But your audience will hear that side as well? Or he wants the dance and fun...
Listen, I think the audience likes songs ...
Audiences can love song, it begins with melody
and lyrics. You can produce the way you want
The melody and lyrics are the most important in a song
We had melodies and texts that people connected to them, loved them
I can not explain it another way, it was the consensus
It's interesting you say "provocation"
Dana never was a provocation
The audience maybe responded her as provocation -I'm talking about music videos
Let's look together. Do you see here a provocation?
In this clip, no.
So this term of "provocation" that tied to Dana...
Everything is relative, of course -We are talking about another time and people...
Today Lady Gaga show her butt and breasts -Right.
So Dana never showed any of these things.
I think that the issue with provocation it's something...
Dana is essentially not a provocative character,
but I think looking at it as a provocation
actually came from the audience, but after a while...
My existence is provocative -Right, the existence
She proved that she is talented singer, period.
Dana is not more provocative singer than other singers
There was a phase that people understood...
"She was a boy once, and she is an artist. We should not refer only to this section"
There was a phase that people got it?
After the Eurovision. When you provide a receipt about your skills
And more and more receipt
So people begin... -I want to ask only about the...
this phase of "Diva", that you becomes a symbol of Israel.
This is not a symbol of the gay community, not a symbol of transgenderes
a symbol that represents the State of Israel
Ambassador, kind of ambassador -What it makes you feel as a person?
This is the victory? When you sing "I Won", this is the victory?
I tell you the truth, At this time I felt nothing abou it, it just made it difficult for me
I was thrown from country to country, from interview to interview
Hardly enjoyed life -I'm not talking about life...
I'm talking about feeling inside
Listen, I'm a very modest person
If you think I will tell you that after the win I felt greater
Or better, then absolutely not
I do not think myself
according count or size of success
But I think every artist that reaching its peak...
I felt like "I paid the debt"
I felt like they believed in me... I felt very patriotic.
Represent Israel, to represent the country
Channel 1 sent me, believe me, it was a lot of pressure
I felt like "I paid the debt"...
You sent me, believed in me, you took a risk, I brought you victory
now I am...
A little more feel free to do things I love
A little more easily relate to life
Less "Wow, what people will say, what will"
Much more free.
Look, "Time" newspaper chose you as one of the most important people of 1998 year
I mean, it even international recognition
On what you did -Listen, all over the world....
It does nothing a person inside? -Yoav,
Leave the music for a moment, all over the world you will not find in any country
someone like me sitting with the prime minister and interviewed
and doing things as a successful normal singer
Without a disparagement.
And therefore Israel deserves the "well done"
Who would have believed that the world
someone from Israel, would go to represent the State of Israel,
transgender women, and even win, no one would believe,
And certainly not Israel. That's why it was kind of surprise
and because of that I think we got very big hug
Because people expected to something and received the opposite.
You did very big thing to the Israeli pop
I think a lot of people opened
In their sexuality and their music thanks to what you did.
Thank you very much -Thanks a lot, Yoav
Thanks, Shay -Thanks
♪ Viva rejoice, Viva Victoria, Aphrodite ♪
♪ Viva Diva, Viva Victoria, Cleopatra ♪
♪ Viva rejoice, Viva Victoria, Aphrodite ♪
♪ Viva Diva, Viva Victoria, Diva ♪
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