Here we are, again with Dr. Amâncio,
for one more question.
Dr Edson Amancio, I know the name ... it is clear, Near-Death Experience ...
but we know about other experiences that humans have,
other situations where people are not close to death,
... for example, one person, that because of a big fright, leaves the body...
and goes through, let's say, a very different experience,
do these other experiences also fit in the concept of the Near-Death Experience?
I think this question is very good to clarify one thing:
the objective of this study contemplates ...
the cases in which...
the diagnosis of clinical death existed.
All the cases we accept to study are cases of NDE.
But you are absolutely right to mention this matter because ...
there are cases of similar experiences to NDE ...
without the presence of the phenomenon of clinical death.
This is the case for example of some drugs, such as LSD ...
There is another substance produced in the pituitary ...
which greatly increases at the time of death,
that is the diethylamine.
It is produced in the pineal gland...
and its production greatly increases with age,
in trauma situations, like head trauma, risk of death,
and this substance is hallucinogenic.
Incidentally this point of your question allows me to bring up ...
a possible explanation for the NDE.
Because the possible explanations are: chemical,
or lack of oxygen,
or mysticism.
These are the possible explanations.
Someone that had an NDE may really think that she or he really ...
went out of the body, found the grandmother, found someone else...
well, this is the religious or mystical explanation, right?
Many researchers are betting that the NDE is due to cerebral anoxia,
the lack of oxygen that happens on the imminence of death.
Apparently, this explanation is very consistent,
because when you have no oxygen,
all brain functions are altered, the chemical changes ...
But in practice, every physician knows that ...
the person who goes through an experience ...
of lack of cerebral oxygenation,
loses consciousness, gets confused,
loses the memory temporarily,
or even definitively, may have some sequels ...
and this person doesn't come back telling a Near-Death Experience.
Not everyone who has a cardiac arrest has a Near-Death Experience.
And everyone who has a cardiac arrest has anoxia, lack of oxygen in the brain.
The chemical and physical conditions are the same but the experiences are ...
Not exactly... The experiences with hallucinogenic drugs,
like the peyote from Mexico,
or the LSD ...
they are hallucinations.
None of them provide this amount of information that the person who passed through an NDE brings to us.
In general they are fleeting and do not have the same complexity.
The light, the tunnel, well-being sensation, joy, communion with the universe, with the cosmos ...
the meeting of deceased people ...
the return to the own body ...
The drug experience is something less elaborate than that.
And as I said, anoxia can not be the definitive explanation ...
because usually the person who has cerebral anoxia gets confused ...
gets bumbling ... and does not have such lucidity,
because everyone who has a Near-Death Experience,
and this is something common to all,
they feel that the vision is expanded, that all the senses are magnified.
There is another drug that is always taken into discussion,
which is an anesthetic that was used a lot, and today is practically no longer used, called ketamine.
Ketamine, at low doses,
provides hallucinations and possibly the sensation of leaving the body.
But these are fleeting experiences, they don't have the same complexity that ...
a Near-Death Experience has.
So, that talk: "Oh, the person who had an NDE had a hallucination ..."
Is it too restrictive to say that?
Because many people that have undergone a Near-Death Experience ...
do not dare to report because they think they will be ...
taken ...
as crazy by the others, isn't it?
This is the most common.
This holds true both for the people we interviewed and for the people in the articles and all the books we read.
All authors mention that.
And in our experience, what you said is absolutely true.
The patients who go through the experience usually do not want to tell.
And those who report, when they are still in, for example, a religious hospital,
they frequently happen to be viewed with suspicion...
because no one believes them, everyone think that all that is caused by their imagination ...
so, people restrict themselves, people hide, they do not want to talk about it.
We still have this taboo.
Rounding out the answer to your question:
"If other situations could provide experiments... similar to the NDE"
Of course, yes. We talked about the drugs,
but in none of them the experience has the complexity ...
of what we classify as NDE.
There are people who describe an NDE even on the verge of a fright ...
of a robbery ...
something like that, a trauma ... very abrupt ...
totally unexpected ...
There have been reports of people who have gone through something that resembles an NDE.
But in our work these cases will not be included.
We're only studying cases of people who somehow have been diagnosed as dead.
Dr Edson, and why the team decided to cover only cases in which there were risk of death?
Nara, the ideal in our work ...
as I told you, it is to have scientific rigor.
As these experiences are subjective,
it is very difficult to have absolute scientific rigor.
hence we exclude any case that has not gone through the hands of a physician,
or through a hospital or emergency room.
All the cases we accept to discuss are medical cases with clinical death diagnosis ...
according to doctors, hospital, exams, electroencephalogram, electrocardiogram...
In fact, the ideal of this research is to make a prospective study, ie ...
to follow each case, have access to medical records, exams, computed tomography, electrocardiography ...
to the drugs that were submitted at the time of resuscitation, etc.
But this is a future project.
We are now studying cases ...
that were presented to us and approved in a pre-established classification,
which are the sixteen items of the so called Greyson Scale... about which, at another time...
we can talk in more detail.
Then these sixteen items will be the subject of our next talk.
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