Gray Rizzy: Everything is clout right now.
There's a lot of kids that are willing to go … The line is right here.
This kid is all the way over there, like "Imma push this to the limit because I know I can
get the most likes from that."
There's a bigger need right now - I was having this conversation with Snoop - of just OGs
really putting their arm around kids and like, "Yo, look."
Just really have these real conversations with them before it gets to be too late.
Rob Markman: What's up everybody.
Welcome back to For the Record.
I am your host Rob Markman.
Now this week we have some serious things to discuss.
As you all know, if you've seen reading the headlines, if you haven't been under a rock,
you've been on Genius, so you know.
Rapper Tekashi 6ix9ine has been arrested; he is currently sitting in jail.
He was charged and indicted on racketeering and firearm charges right on the eve of the
release of his 'Dummy Boy' album.
Rob Markman: We've seen the controversies played out, we've seen the music hit the charts,
and it really begs this question about hip-hop's relationship with the streets.
What does this all mean?
Where does Tekashi go from here?
Can he get out of this?
Should he get out of this?
What does this mean for the music?
We have a whole lot of questions, and I've assembled a panel of some pretty dope people,
man, that I wanted to come and speak about this.
Rob Markman: First up, we have my man Kevin Chiles, founder of Don Diva.
Honestly, I think, one of the most important publications when we talk about hip-hop and
the streets.
You guys are really experts
Kevin, man, thank you for being here with us.
Kevin Chiles: Appreciate you for having us.
Rob Markman: Nah, man.
Rob Markman: Gray Rizzy, host of We Outchea on Shade 45, and you're on the Hip Hop Nation
on SiriusXM.
You just runnin' these radio waves, man, and I know you see the headlines, I know you play
the music.
And we wanted to have you here to discuss that.
Gray Rizzy: Thanks for having me back.
Rob Markman: No doubt, man.
Rob Markman: And Nyla Symone.
DJ Nyla Symone on Power 105.
You out here in these clubs, you out on the radio, you spinnin' the records, you see the
impact on the music.
You seen Tekashi's rise really from kind of underground New York thing to this worldwide
phenomenon, so we're definitely blessed to have you here.
Nyla Symone: Thanks for having me.
Rob Markman: Nah, man, thank you for coming.
Rob Markman: I just want to get into some things.
Tekashi, so he pled not guilty and he was denied bail.
His trial is coming up in September 2019, and presumably, he'll stay in jail the whole
time unless he's granted bail.
Rob Markman: Kevin, I wanted to start with you because I think there's been a lot of
talk about Tekashi 6ix9ine, about this arrest, these charges and what it all means.
Don Diva, again, very street-focused, music-focused, and kind of talks about the marriage between
the two.
I love it because it's not like your publication glorifies the streets.
A lot of it is cautionary tales-
Kevin Chiles: Absolutely-
Rob Markman: And educational.
I just want to get your read on this situation coming from your point of view.
Kevin Chiles: It's a very serious situation.
It's an unfortunate situation for him, because I realize that he's an entertainer and probably
part of what he was doing.
For the most part, his thinking was that he was entertaining.
And I believe that.
I've seen several interviews with the kid and I get from him that he's a good kid,
generally.
I don't get that he's a gangsta, or that's what he desires to be.
Kevin Chiles: But the situation that he's in is a very serious situation.
With him being 22, I don't think he even understands the levity of the situation just yet.
I think he's just starting, probably, to get a sense of what's really going on.
Rob Markman: Can you explain for us?
Because in the headlines we've seen that he's facing RICO charges and racketeering charges.
Me thinking back, if I didn't know no better, I'd think about old mob flicks.
"Oh, he's running the rackets and something like that."
It's a term that you don't hear every day.
Kevin Chiles: Absolutely.
Rob Markman: So RICO racketeering.
What's going on?
What's he actually being charged with?
Kevin Chiles: Well, what RICO represents is an organization, and there's different facets
of it.
Tekaski being the musical component of it.
Then there are other guys that may not even be music related - they may be guys that are
just Tr3yway that have committed crimes, attempt murders, murders, selling narcotics.
But because he's under the guise of this organization, he becomes a component of it, because they
all running around saying the same thing.
So even though he may not necessarily acted in a capacity himself, he's still considered
part of the conspiracy of the organization.
So he's held liable.
Kevin Chiles: The way the charge is, there's a mandatory minimum of 10 years.
That means the lessest participant in it could respectively receive the minimum of 10 years
even if they weren't the one.
Maybe there was a murder committed and they didn't pull the trigger, or narcotics being
sold on the corner and they didn't participate in selling the narcotic, but if you're a part
of the organization, that's a way to group a bunch of individuals together and charge
them with RICO.
Rob Markman: Right.
Gray, I know you've been paying attention to this for a minute.
I feel like 18 months was really the rise of Tekashi.
We've seen things.
We've seen, just in September, they raided his house, found the AR-15.
There was a shooting at Barclays, the various rap beefs be it with Casanova -- which they've
since made peace -- or YG out on the west coast.
We've seen, kind of, the various serious things, the very entertainment things, and the very
flagrant things play out.
Were you surprised when this all came down?
Was this something that you kind of saw building?
Gray Rizzy: I wasn't surprised.
I wasn't surprised at all.
First of all, I respect Kevin a lot, for everything that he's done outside of Don Diva and everything
before that, but I respectfully disagree with you as well.
I mean, he's 22 years old.
He's a grown man.
He might not have understood how RICO works, but all of us have grown up in this city,
in cities around the world, you know those four letters.
You stay away.
You stay away from them.
RICO, you don't want to be caught up with it.
Gray Rizzy: For him to be in the mix of everything that he has going on, I'm not saying he knew
exactly what was going on, but he had to know.
He was Icarus.
He was getting closer and closer to that fire, and he was about to get burned.
You have so many different OGs that was coming up.
The most popular one was when they saw Fat Joe, and he's telling him like, "Look, I've
been in this situation.
I've seen this story before.
We've all seen this story before."
Gray Rizzy: Over the last 18 months we've all been saying the same thing to him.
There's two things, three things that's going to happen.
You can either chill, you're going to end up in jail, or you're going to end up dead.
Gray Rizzy: So am I surprised?
I'm not surprised.
I'm glad it's the lesser of the evils.
He's in jail right now versus being on the other side of his demise.
But he has a hell of a - and that's one thing I do agree with Kevin on - he has a hell of
a uphill battle.
He probably sitting down right now thinking, "Oh, shit.
How am I going to get out of this?"
Kevin Chiles: Can I chime in just right quick?
Rob Markman: Yes, absolutely.
Kevin Chiles: The part that you don't disagree with me about, is because I have personal
experience.
I remember being that age myself and having the kind of money that he had.
Money is all power.
You feel invincible, you feel like there's nothing you can't do.
So the first time he got out of trouble because he gets a slap on the wrist, and that time
he had an attorney he did this.
At some point, he thought that he was invincible.
And we're not talking about a kid who grew up with parents or an area or surrounded...when
you saying his OGs, I think they may have very well been exploiting the kid;
Gray Rizzy: Not his OGs.
There were OGs-
Kevin Chiles: No, yeah.
Charlamagne Tha God gave him great advice.
Quite a number of people did.
But you just become almost like ignorant to what people say because you like, "Listen,
I got more money than you.
What can you tell me?"
Gray Rizzy: Kev, this is the thing I disagree with you on that.
You are the example.
Kevin Chiles: Yeah, I'm not defending him.
I wish he got it.
Gray Rizzy: If anything, I think that's what frustrates a lot of us, maybe everybody that's
on this panel, a lot of people who are actually rooting for him.
What he represents was a way out.
Like, "Oh, shoot, if he can turn something out of nothing into something very, very big."
Nyla Symone: But I don't think he wasn't taking everybody's advice.
Like, he did try to distance himself, he fired everybody..
Kevin Chiles: He did that like 24 hours...
Gray Rizzy: You know what that tells me?
That tells me he knew something was coming.
Rob Markman: Well, of course he knew something.
First of all, the feds, they had… they went into his house, they found the AR-15-
Kevin Chiles: Well, then when he was out in the country at the time.
Rob Markman: They were around.
I feel like he was getting information.
They say that they informed him the day after his Breakfast Club interview that there was
a hit out for him.
So it seemed like they were reaching out and giving him ways to maybe get out of it.
Me and Kevin were talking about this off-air, that the feds reaching out and giving him
ways to get out of it may be for him to become …. cooperate.
Rob Markman: Let's get into that, too, the whole snitch thing right now, the whole cooperation
thing.
Is that the read for you?
Is the pressure that they were putting on him was to try and arrest the ….
Kevin Chiles: That's absolutely what they were doing in regards to that.
The question becomes at this point is I'm sure he's contemplating what he's going to
do.
He's newly rich, he's 22 years old, and the severity of this is anywhere from, like I
said, 10 years to life.
Kevin Chiles: I don't think he's really a street guy, and most street guys aren't going
to stand up under that.
The feds are who they are just because.
This is psychological, it's strategic, and he has some very serious choices, some decisions
that he needed to make.
I'm not going to predict what he's going to do, but society has pretty much done that
at this point.
It's not too many people doing time in the era that we live in now.
That's not to say that he would do something else.
Kevin Chiles: Some people might consider him a fool to be morally sound and do what ... the
situation he got himself in.
Just stand by that and whatever comes with that, whatever punishment to do that.
I mean, he's an entertainer.
He's making a lot of money, and I don't think he's had an opportunity to enjoy the money,
first off.
Rob Markman: Nyla, Let's talk about this again, because you're out here playing his records.
You represent a very young generation that's really coming up.
A lot of times I want to give you credit because you're the DJ that puts other DJs on to what's
coming on.
You kind of start the wave.
With Tekashi and balancing the music and the streets, do music fans have the same morals?
You know, Kevin talks about not cooperating, standing up, taking the time.
Does that matter to his fans these days?
Nyla Symone: Yeah, well I think something we have to take into account is that Tekashi's
fans, the real fan base or the people that's on YouTube, that's searching online all day,
those are kids ages 10 to 18.
That's his core demographic right there.
So, not saying that, you said 10 years would be the smallest amount that he'd get.
If you think about 10 years, his fans are going to be 20.
I'm not saying that I want... but I'm just saying I think he'll be okay.
I don't think this will be the end for Tekashi, I really don't.
But I think this is just a huge L he's taking.
Rob Markman: Okay, so how do the fans play into it?
Because he's doing very gangsta things, right?
His lawyer has said, "Hey, he's an entertainer; he's not a gangsta."
So this is the defense that they're setting up.
When he's portraying the gangsta thing and the fans are very much eating into it, how
much does that matter?
If he comes out, he can't go back to yelling Tr3yway on Instagram and telling YG the things
that he tells him.
Nyla Symone: Well, kids' values are different than those who actually came from that street
life.
Even people my age, 23, 20s, just values are different than they were when NWA was hot.
When you said things back then, it really meant something.
Where now you can say something like, "Suck my whatever," and people just roll off the
shoulder, as opposed to-
Gray Rizzy: Certain people.
It rolls off certain people.
It obviously didn't roll off YG back, it didn't roll off Slim 400 back.
Nyla Symone: But you go into a high school, I guarantee you it'll be kids saying that
back and forth, like on some kiki, ha-ha, like it's funny.
Gray Rizzy: If two people are playing around and stuff, but most men don't invite other
men to their genital area.
That's number one.
Especially-
Kevin Chiles: There's a way to play and do that?
Gray Rizzy: No, I'm sayin' most men don't do that.
Kevin Chiles: Oh, okay.
Gray Rizzy: But if you do play around like that, maybe it is in a high school setting,
but in this particular setting right here, I think he was very unconventional.
Tekashi knew how to press buttons, you can agree with that, right?
He knew how to press buttons, he knew how to get under other people's skin.
You said something when we were off-air, that he really knew how to work the internet to
his advantage.
Right?
Nyla Symone: He's the trolling king.
Gray Rizzy: He definitely is the trolling king.
But his unconventional ways.
Now you're talking about jail time, he's sitting.
You're talking to lawyers, you're talking to judges, DAs, all these people, U.S. district
attorneys, not state.
Now, it's like, "Oh, shoot, what do I do?"
Are you supposed to have the morals now?
Are you supposed to sit there like a real G and be like, "Nope.
You know what?
I'm not going to say anything."
Gray Rizzy: These are the things that everybody's asking the questions.
How are you going to handle this?
Nyla Symone: When he tells people to "Suck my-" he's not even saying it like ... I don't
know how to explain it.
It's like back in the day when you be like, "Your mother," like on House Party, that scene,
and they like, "Your mother," then they like…
Gray Rizzy: I think you givin' him a pass, Nyla.
I think you givin' him a pass.
Nyla Symone: I'm not givin' him a pass.
I'm-
Kevin Chiles: He was venomous in the manner in which he said...
Rob Markman: Yeah, because he didn't back down, then he was like, "Yo, did you just
say that?"
Kevin Chiles: Then he added your mothers' lips to it.
Rob Markman: Yeah, I don't know how disrespectful you can get...
Gray Rizzy: Wow, that's even worse.
You know that's worse.
Like, whoa.
Whoa, brother.
Rob Markman: I want to get two sides to this.
But the music side.
This is right before the album was supposed to come out.
The album didn't come out, but ended up leaking, and now they're saying they going to put it
on streaming.
Have we heard the album?
Have you guys heard the album?
Gray Rizzy: Yeah.
Rob Markman: Musically, what did you take away from it?
Gray Rizzy: I can tell you straight up I wasn't the biggest fan of 6ix9ine's music.
Right?
As far as I've been listening to it, because we have no choice, everybody wants to hear
it.
But I thought this album was going to set him up for a whole lot of people to open their
eyes, like, "Oh, this is actually okay.
Like we can do something with this."
Gray Rizzy: I did notice in the album, even though there were songs we've already heard
like "FEFE," there were songs that he had with Tory and Kanye where he's stepping away
from saying Tr3yway.
"No, no, no, we can't say that on here."
Rob Markman: Right, they were purposely like on the song with Tory, he's like "No, we can't
say it."
So he's like, "It's Target.
It's Trojans."
Like they started making a joke of it, but they pulled back from saying it's Tr3yway.
Gray Rizzy: Right.
Rob Markman: So at what point did he start recording this music?
It also goes back to saying when was this separation where they had it, because we also
remember that he was robbed, he claimed to have been robbed on an inside job, then kidnapped-
Nyla Symone: Claimed.
Rob Markman: But you can't tell.
Everything is kind of for show and in front of Instagram, so nobody really quite knows
what's real.
But we know that there was problems within the camp leading up to it, so now on this
big album release that has some of the biggest music stars like Kanye West and Nicki Minaj,
the thing that he hollered eight days out of the week - Tr3yway - on his album, he's
not saying it anymore.
[crosstalk 00:15:43] It's kind of interesting.
Kevin Chiles: But didn't he have a court appearance pretty close to the release to his album where
it was understood that he had to disassociate himself.
That was part of his-
Nyla Symone: In October.
Kevin Chiles: Right.
Yeah.
That may also have something to do with it, too, all depending on when those songs were
recorded.
Nyla Symone: That's when he first started distancing himself, by the way.
So that was a month prior.
Rob Markman: Okay.
Well, what did you think about the music?
I want to know from a DJ's perspective.
Is the music enough to ... he may have to sit down for a while and not come out.
We talk about in the history of hip-hop, we've seen… there used to be this old narrative
that jail made you hot.
We saw Tupac go to jail and get a number one album.
We've seen Wayne sitting down for a year, come out and do "Tha Carter III."
TI, Gucci Mane, Shyne, it's worked or hasn't worked to varying degrees.
The question that I have for you as a DJ, is the music strong enough that if Tekashi
does have to do time that he could still have a music career after all this?
Nyla Symone: Hm, that's interesting.
I think all the artists you just named prior, though, their music was already solidified
and hot.
They came out and then they became stars where he's already got the star power and now it's
time for his music to speak.
I think his situation is kinda like, just a tad bit different, like kind of reverse.
I like the album.
I know kids that really love his music.
That song "STOOPID"; it's going crazy right now.
Everybody wants to hit the dance.
Nyla Symone: Longevity, though?
I don't even think ... music comes and goes so fast, and everything's consumed.
So 10 years, we could be on to a whole new ... like hip-hop may even be the main genre,
you know what I'm saying?
So, I don't know.
Rob Markman: Kevin.
Again, Don Diva.
Again, I just want to salute.
Back when I first started my career as a writer, when The Source, XXL, Vibe would only let
me do album reviews in the back, Don Diva was assigning me cover stories.
So I was getting my biggest kind of interviews, my biggest projects through Don Diva and learned
a lot writing for that magazine.
Rob Markman: Kev, through the years you guys have documented this balance.
A lot of incarcerated rappers that you paid very close attention to.
That myth that jail makes you hot as an artist, is that myth?
Is that a real thing?
Kevin Chiles: I think it was perpetuated from the street credibility, and I think, as stated,
I don't even know if that matters so much more in the music now.
I don't know if people listen to the lyrics at this point.
I do know there are a group of individuals that's been, and not in so much the street
credibility, it's just about morals and integrity.
It had nothing to do with street credibility, it's just about the way you live your life.
It's just so happens that being an entertainer or being in some sort of system where you
need to assign that to be something unique.
People attach that to that.
Kevin Chiles: I honestly don't know whether or not it matters at this point in music because
you figured during that time you had artists, you had Ruff Ryders, you had DMXs, you had
Ja Rules, and then you had 50s, and then you had Jay-Zs, and then you had Miles.
You had all of those kind of people who was propelling that mentality and mindset.
I don't necessarily know if music is deriving from that place right now, I'm not certain.
They would probably be better to state if they think if that's even a component at this
time.
Rob Markman: You want to weigh in?
Gray Rizzy: I'm not really sure.
There's been a lot of things that have changed over the years.
What he's saying is exactly right.
For so many different people you couldn't pick up a basketball and make a hoop and dunk.
Hip-hop represented a way out.
How am I going to take what I used to do over here, tell the story, be the newscaster, but
then profit from it in such a way that's going to set me up to make the jump into something
that's legal so I can live my life the right way without having to have my head on a swivel.
Gray Rizzy: Nowadays, we don't know what's live, we don't know what's Memorex.
If people don't know what that means - we don't know what's live, we don't know what's
fake.
You know what I'm saying?
There's a lot of stuff that's going out there right now, I'm know I'm not the only one.
When I saw him walk away from his team, I said, "Is this because the album's coming
out?
Is this for real?"
You know what I'm saying?
Kevin Chiles: Even with the robbery that proceeded that.
Gray Rizzy: Yeah, even with that.
A lot of us question that and it's messed up that we're questioning, "Damn.
He got kidnapped?
They possibly held him at gunpoint and all this stuff?"
Gray Rizzy: Again, you're talking of all this, but there's so much stuff going on right now,
you're just like, "Do I believe it, don't I believe it?"
Almost to the point where you're like it's the girl who cried wolf.
I don't want to say that he's a girl; I'm just sayin' he's doing all this extra-ness
What do I believe at this point?
Rob Markman: Let me ask you.
Bobby Shmurda.
Locked up as well.
What are the similarities and differences?
Because it seems like Shmurda is a different thing.
I just want to give a shoutout to OkayPlayer.
I just want to read this.
Andre Gee over at OkayPlayer, shoutout to y'all.
Y'all do great work over there.
Rob Markman: "Bobby's story was a classic case of growing up in a predicament where
he felt he had no options but to gang bang, but 6ix9ine assumed his hood-Suicide Squad
persona in a bid merely feign alliances with the gang, inciting violence to further his
own agenda and fame.
Bobby couldn't escape the trap, but 6ix9ine's fervor for the clout lured him to it."
Rob Markman: That's just his opinion.
So basically that Shmurda didn't have very many options and it looks like maybe 6ix9ine
ran to it.
Is that a fair assessment?
Gray Rizzy: I'll keep mine short.
I think it is fair.
I think there's two differences.
I think you have on one side, with Bobby Shmurda, "Hot Nigga" just took off and it's like
you're trying to catch up, like "What do we do?
How does this go?
What do we do in this instance?
This is a interview?"
It was a lot of things like that.
We all saw parts of that.
Gray Rizzy: With this right here, a lot of it was calculated.
You don't end up in somebody's bed with somebody's ex-girlfriend saying, "Look at this," without
you thinking, "How do we do this?
How do we record this?"
And I'm talking about when he was with Trippie Redd's ex-girlfriend, which I thought was
funny, but at the same time, you thought that out.
And he had a bunch of different things in that very vein.
Gray Rizzy: So I think that they're very different, and I just think 6ix9ine, he had a runway
to say "Alright, let me get off this."
Rob Markman: It was very much calculated, right?
Also, him going to O-Block in Chicago and knowing he had a beef out there, but later
admitting, it was like, "Yeah, I was there for 15 seconds.
Did the quick video at 4:00 in the morning when nobody's around."
Gray Rizzy: I'm there to entertain you, I'm not there to get killed.
You know?
He knew.
He knew a lot of stuff that was going on.
Nyla Symone: Tekashi is a trolling, marketing genius, so that's the difference between Tekashi
and Bobby, where Bobby is a street dude.
But like you said before, people who didn't play basketball use music as a way to get
out.
So Tekashi did, too, use that same formula, even though he faked it.
I don't want to sound like I'm like ... you know, because you said I'm taking his side
Rob Markman: No, it's cool though.
Gray Rizzy: I thought you were giving him a pass, but I'll be the first one to tell
you-
Kevin Chiles: You a fan?
You a fan, outside of liking his music, are you a personal fan of his?
Nyla Symone: Yeah, I like him as a person.
He has high energy every time I've met him.
Kevin Chiles: I think he's entertaining as well.
Nyla Symone: Yeah.
Kevin Chiles: I really genuinely think he's a good kid.
Nyla Symone: Through social media you can connect with people.
So watching him every day do all his every day shenanigans, I'm like partly connected
to him so it really ...
Rob Markman: This isn't his first time in trouble with the law.
With his legal problems before, he was charged with sexual performance of a minor on camera,
something that he pled guilty to.
How does that factor?
He's now stranger to the law and the courtroom and facing this.
He's faced this before, though this one seems way more serious in terms of the time that
he's facing.
Rob Markman: Does that factor?
Can you still be a fan of that?
I know a lot of people can't be a fan after those original charges.
Nyla Symone: I don't know.
Rob Markman: Sorry I didn't mean to put you on the spot.
Listen, it's no judgment, you know what I mean?
Nyla Symone: I don't really know the details in that case that well to really hold an opinion
about it, one.
And then, two, I would say that, at the time, he didn't have money to get proper representation
for it.
But I don't really know the details of it, so I don't really wanna...
Gray Rizzy: From what I've read, I think there's been a lot of situations over the years where
people have may not have known everything.
You know, the young lady was underage.
I don't think most people asking people's age at the point.
He wasn't … we need you to sign off on this contract, prove how old you are, and stuff
like that.
Gray Rizzy: We all have kids up here.
You can't be a fan of that, but I can say in growing up we've all been in situations
- not that situation - but been in situations where it's like, yo, the way it's playing
out isn't exactly what it was.
So I think, another thing that she said, he didn't have the proper representation to communicate
that point and to go ahead and shed light on those facts.
Gray Rizzy: So do I agree with what he did?
Hell no.
But it was a huge mistake on his part.
He didn't have … it's even more a reason not to be underneath the microscope because
everybody is already on you because of this.
And then he had other things that happened past that, like maybe another three, four
run-ins after that.
So all of this is the reason why I say it's so damn frustrating because, while I may not
be the biggest fan of his music, I'm always rooting for kids trying to figure out a way
to make money and take care of their family, their friends, and people, and build up some
type of business.
Unfortunately, it's not … took some wrong turns on this.
Kevin Chiles: What I will add to that, what they've said is, they've covered it.
From the legal ramifications, he has a felony because of that case, what that does also
with the feds is put you in another category.
So in all reality, he's not even looking at 10 years, because he's looking at 10 years
with no felony.
If you got a felony and you get convicted, then that puts you in a category two, which
raises a level.
So he's not even really, quite frankly, looking at even 10 years with it as it stands, just
because of the felony in that case.
Rob Markman: One of the things that I took from this kind of discussion is how much hip-hop
has changed through the years and how much the streets have changed through the years,
what's acceptable, what's accepted, and the generational divide.
Rob Markman: Kevin, do you recognize it?
Because you were out here in the era when everything was brand new.
The crack era-
Kevin Chiles: Right.
Absolutely.
When I fell, I was listening to Craig Mack and Biggie.
Actually, I had a record company at the time and we had just come from Jack the Rapper
and Snoop was being introduced as a new artist from the Deep Cover soundtrack.
It was Craig Mack and Biggie, and I had had a group and we were all at Jack the Rapper
in '94, and I went to jail that November.
So I missed everything.
When I came home, these things were established.
So the energy was definitely different, it was a different time.
We sort of touched on some of that, but, yeah, I definitely missed all that.
Kevin Chiles: I don't have a problem with where music is now.
It seems like it's in a more comfortable place, a more happy place, which I think is good
culturally.
I think it's more encompassing where music is now, because, what was they labelling it?
Gangsta rap, or whatever that was?
I think that's why music has been broad and it's such mass appeal now, because the music
is so on a general ... it's a feel-good kind of thing.
Rob Markman: Here's the thing that scares me, and I would love for you all to weigh
in.
With the Tekashi situation, I feel like, first of all, a lot of rappers and rap artists aren't
necessarily from the street or living that street life.
We know that a lot of it is just entertainment or the person next to them, telling someone
else's story.
Majority of the fans, by far, aren't within that street life, either.
I get kind of scared seeing this play out, and there's real life consequences to these
actions.
There's real life consequences to these Instagram videos.
It's not just Tekashi where artists are pulling all types of guns and basically incriminating
themselves on camera for the sake of likes or to sell a record or to get a stream.
Is it that they don't realize that there's real life consequences?
We've seen Tekashi face these real life consequences right now.
That's the part that scares me is that we're glorifying ... it was bad when we were glorifying
the streets in '80s and '90s.
We seen what happened, right?
I think it's even worse now because I think we're the generation that doesn't even know
what the hell they're dealing with.
Gray Rizzy: Well, I think with the… when you talk about digital and you talkin' about
social, right?
Everything is clout right now.
There's a lot of kids that are willing to go … The line is right here.
This kid is all the way over there, like "Imma push this to the limit because I know I can
get the most likes from that."
There's a bigger need right now - I was having this conversation with Snoop - of just OGs
really putting their arm around kids and like, "Yo, look."
Just really have these real conversations with them before it gets too late.
The problem is some of these kids just don't care, you know?
Like, they do not care.
There's this alternative world and this alternative universe where this is real life here.
Where if you get pinched, it's going to hurt.
Over there it's like, "Yo, I'm going to blow your fucking arm off."
Rob Markman: Boonk, popular on IG, shot himself earlier this year, and put it for the 'Gram
to see.
We're seeing these things, like how far are you willing to go for a like or just a career
in rap?
At what point is it like, "You know what?
I'm good.
UPS is hiring.
I'm cool.
I don't need ..."
Gray Rizzy: I think the biggest thing is there shouldn't be a divide..
I don't ever want it to be a divide.
It shouldn't be like these old heads and these young heads and stuff, because what happens
with a divide is everybody says, "Yo, yo, I don't want to listen to that old shit.
Take your Sergio Tacchini suit in the club and go over that way."
It shouldn't be that.
Rob Markman: Sergio Tacchini is coming back.
Gray Rizzy: It is coming back.
It is kinda hot.
You got that royal blue.
If you listening, you might want to hit us up.
Gray Rizzy: You don't want that divide, you want the kids to listen because there's a
lot of knowledge that can go ahead and provide a path where can just sidestep a lot of pitfalls.
But if kids aren't willing to listen, and if you know they don't have the right people
around them, you're going to see more instances like this.
Best believe, this shit right here?
This is an example.
Rob Markman: Let me ask you a question then, because, and Nyla I want to go to you, a lot
of it is the controversy that propels the music, right?
Like you're watching the show.
In Tekashi's case, could he have been successful just putting out the music without the trolling?
Nyla Symone: I don't know.
I'm going to say this, because I know a lot of talented artists, like a lot of talented
artists, who don't get any recognition.
I think Tekashi's trolling, all that he did on social media, all that online, is what
helped him get hot.
Let's look at the state of music industry right now and our culture.
I know a lot of IG models who want to sing, who want to rap, who just try it on because
that's just like the phenomenon.
Like he said, it's about clout.
If you got clout when you start rapping, so Tekashi got clout and then his music followed.
Think about - what song got him hot?
"Gummo" got him hot?
He had rainbow hair.
Marketing.
Like you said, it's strategic.
He's very strategic.
He thought about it.
He got the rainbow hair, he's toting guns, he's a bunch of kids in Brooklyn, and they
record this crazy music video.
It blows up just like Bobby Shmurda did.
Everything he did was thought about.
So, nah, if it wasn't for his marketing prior, I don't think his music would have been hot.
Rob Markman: Kev, did you have something to add?
Kevin Chiles: No, I think everything she said was accurate.
Rob Markman: I think Shmurda was different because even though it looked very street
in the Shmurda video, like it was a dance that popped it off.
Even before, Kevin said it, I don't even know if we listened to lyrics.
Even before we knew exactly what he was saying in the lyrics, it was like, "Oh, this is dope
song."
It wasn't until later that we found out about all this stuff that Shmurda-
Nyla Symone: It was a confession.
Gray Rizzy: You know what that reminded me of-
Rob Markman: The song did have a lot of-
Gray Rizzy: It reminded me of Nelly on "Country Grammar."
"I'm going down down baby" and when you really figured out what that song was about you was
like, "Oh, shit, they're talking about guns and everything," in the song.
It was one of those things, when the hat flip for Bobby Shmurda, you was like, "Oh I like
this shit."
I mess with this song.
Rob Markman: Hip-hop, like Kevin says, has always been coded language.
This is why we have slang.
So it's always been coded.
We've always hid ... what is it?
The medicine in the candy or the other way around.
Gray Rizzy: If you know, you know.
I'll be the first one to tell you I wasn't that mad at Tekashi's trolling.
I wasn't that mad.
I thought that was really marketable.
Sometimes, I knew more about that than the songs, than the music he had out there.
Kevin Chiles: Most did.
Nyla Symone: Yeah, that's true.
Gray Rizzy: I knew more about that.
Like when he did the 50 Cent joint, he was like "In the Club" joint and he was upside
down like he was training.
Gray Rizzy: That was great.
Rob Markman: But that's different from "Yo suck my dick, blood."
Gray Rizzy: Definitely different.
Kevin Chiles: What you said about 50, I think if he did that he would have been fine.
Gray Rizzy: He would have been straight.
Kevin Chiles: I think the other thing got a little edgy and beyond what he should have
been doing just for his own safety.
And, sadly, the question may very well be, was this the better of the two evils what
happened to him, because a lot of people ... saw his demise being one that had a finality to it.
So, you know, who knows.
Rob Markman: All right.
Last question.
I just wanted to wrap and get everybody's last take.
Again, with everything that he's facing and however it may turn out, Nyla I'll start with
you again, the tough question: does his career survive?
Does he still have a music career after this?
Can he go on?
Nyla Symone: I think at this point he solidified himself as a socialite, so even if when he
comes out and his music don't pop, people are still going to be interested in him and
what he does.
Even if he would have stopped when he was on probation making music and woulda went
about doing something else, I think we all still would have followed him.
Cardi B can stop rapping right now and I'm still going to be like, "Dang, she on Good
Morning America?
Let me watch."
Imma watch.
Gray Rizzy: I don't think that it's going to work because just like Kev said, right
now, I think the lowest felony you can have is an E or an F or something like that.
Kevin Chiles: Yeah, no, not in this instance.
It carries a mandatory 10 years, first of all.
Gray Rizzy: In this situation, he's been elevated.
So he's probably looking more along that line of 15, 20 something like that.
They're still gathering a lot of information and, from what I understand, they have a hell
of a lot of pictures and videos.
Rob Markman: The prosecution is saying now they have an informant.
Gray Rizzy: They're saying they have an informant, a CI's involved.
So, when you talk about the music, I think that should be the last thing on his mind
Kevin Chiles: I agree.
Gray Rizzy: The very last thing.
He'll be lucky if he comes out and he has some type of money left where he can just
kind of go back to society.
Kevin Chiles: Make it all worth it.
Not even all worth it.
That's me mispeaking.
Nothing gonna be all worth it.
Gray Rizzy: It's not gonna be worth it.
Kevin Chiles: But I'd just like to see the kid get his freedom.
There's so many, like you said, his fans rooting for him.
And had he been successful, he would have been a role model and a blueprint for people
to follow.
And that might be one of the reasons why this happened as well.
He was wildly popular.
Rob Markman: I appreciate the conversation, and I appreciate all your energy and all your
opinions.
Really wanted to put this panel together again to discuss this in an intelligent way for
the fans to see what's going on and let people know what they're up against and what they're
facing when in these situations.
Like, it's entertainment and it's fun, but there's real life consequences and I think
we all have to be aware of these real life consequences.
That's all we got for you this week.
We definitely want to hear from you in the comments.
Hit us up below, man.
For the Record.
Peace.
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