hi everybody my name is Kim and welcome to today's video for today we're getting
kinda near the end of the semester for me which I am I'm excited about but also
not excited about because next semester is gonna be so much worse because I have
like double the course load but I'm still very excited for this semester to
be done me and Barney are currently in the process of deciding who's gonna go
back to England he's definitely gonna go back to visit but we're not sure yet I'm
gonna come with him so I'm still still kind of deciding but yeah either way
there's only a couple more weeks left so I am definitely ready to be done but
still a lot of work to do before that gets to happen. My last video was a
little bit more emotional it was a little bit heavier so I thought today we
would pick a little bit of a lighter topic and just talk about the wrath
of God. I'm gonna be responding to a video today and the reason I was
interested in the video is because I think in the kind of atheist community
we use a lot of this imagery of a wrathful God quite a lot. We talk about
you know, the genocide that the God of the Bible has committed and all these
terrible things that he's jealous he's vengeful and just overall very "wrathful"
is I guess the word that people like to use, and I think at least for me as
somebody who's outside of the religion and never been religious when I see a
lot of religious people talk about how Christianity is love, or it's about
kindness and charity and whatever, to have this contrast of the entire like
supernatural force behind it being this terrible thing is quite ironic and I
think a lot of atheists use it that way to kind of demonstrate the the irony and
maybe the contradiction that they see in the religion. So I saw this video come up
on my feed, it's called God's wrath is actually a good thing
so I was interested to see how a religious person would justify this
thing that to me seems very very horrible and non justifiable and when I
watched the video I was not surprised but I also thought there were some
interesting points in here so we're gonna be responding to those today.
This is a video by the way from the channel jon jorgenson
Jorgensen I believe I've been watching his channel for a while actually and
looking through a lot of his different videos he seems like a fine guy, his
videos are pretty well produced, I wanted to do a response video to him for a
while and I thought that this was a good place to start because this particular
topic intrigued me "Good morning Bautista's and baristas"
"Welcome to another episode of coffee time today we're talking about wrath"
Quick rant, what is it with Christians and coffee what the what is going on
like I know people like coffee and coffee is very consumed beverage but I
feel like I was just ranting to Barny about this I see these like t-shirts on
Instagram that are like my two favorite things Jesus and coffee it's like what
I don't why do they like coffee so much I don't understand... I don't understand
I'm not a huge coffee fan myself but I feel like we atheists need to like
take back coffee I think the Christians are taking it away from us I'll design a
shirt that says like Darwin and coffee just to freakin reclaim it.
"Welcome to another episode of Coffee time today we're talking about wrath right kind of
like what you get if you're with me in the morning and I don't get my coffee"
Wait a second why are you implying that I'm with you
in the morning I find this to be very inappropriate I'm flattered believe me
but this is very inappropriate to speak to your audience that way I don't know
what you are implying sir you are a married man! "So if you're like me you
have probably spent the majority of your Christian life
pretty uncomfortable with the idea of God's wrath I think most of us even
those of us who would call ourselves Christians we don't like this idea of an
Old Testament angry God who hurls down fire and sees masses of people killed
like I don't like that idea it makes me uncomfortable" Now I'm glad he's being
self-aware here because I've had conversations with people who don't even
want to begin to accept that the Christian God has committed mass
genocide so I'm glad that he's at least to be in a bit real here but I've heard
this said before where the Old Testament God has talked about as if it's like
this separate thing but they can almost just like put over there that's the Old
Testament god that's not my God or whatever but I guess you can kind of
believe whatever you want but also it's the same God it's the same religion it's
the same. I feel like if you're going to believe that there is a God and you're
going to believe that it's the Christian God and Jesus and all that stuff then
you kind of have to believe that that Old Testament God is still your God with
still the same feelings and if your God was able to change his mind about
something and you also believe that your God is the authority on morality then
you have to believe that your God has morality that exists outside of himself
so therefore he's not really the authority on morality if he can just
change his mind cuz then he's not the one making that decision do you know
what I mean I don't feel like I'm explaining it super well but this is
something that just kind of bothers me a little bit. "However, something that I have
come to realize over the years is that if God wasn't wrathful then he couldn't
be graceful you see I used to think and I think other people get this
misconception that God is wrathful because he's hateful or because he hates
us or he's disappointed in us..." I love when people say oh that's a big
misconception about God as if they themselves
are somehow now the authority on what this being that's supposed to be
impossible to understand thinks and feels. "...and I think other people get this
misconception that God is wrathful because he's hateful or because he hates
us or he's disappointed in us but God doesn't have wrath God doesn't show
wrath because he hates us God shows wrath because he hates sin he hates that
sin Marz us he hates that sin gets in the way of him and us." if you really
believe in this God and you really believe in the concept of sin your God
just made up what sin is it's like I was just saying because if there's no
external morality for this God and if he is the source of morality and he is the
source of good and evil then that means he himself is responsible for just
arbitrarily picking what he thinks is good and what he thinks is bad but if
you believe that he has a morality outside of that or maybe has an innate
sense of morality then I would say so do humans and God just doesn't exist but
that's just me. This is why even within the context of the story of Christianity
I still don't really feel like this God is a good loving thing I feel like this
argument is used to try and convert atheists into Christianity sometimes or
to try and make people think that Wow God is so great but even within the
story I just think that it's kind of a dick move what he's doing. "And it's only
when we begin to grasp just how much God hates sin that we can begin to realize
how incredible it is that he would forgive sin in us and part of what the
Bible does especially in the Old Testament it paints this picture of a
God who absolutely hates sin and alongside of that it paints this picture
of a people that he created that just can't help but give themselves over to
that sin." Kind of sounds like God's fault to me
and not the fault of the people. "And when we begin to understand that when we
begin to understand that God loved us so much but he also hated the sin that
marred us it begins to help us understand the reason for Jesus we begin
to understand that a price needed to be paid for that sin that God hated so much"
But like... why? "We begin to understand that a price needed to be paid for that sin
that God hated so much but his love for us kept him from having us pay that
price in fact he decided to pay that price
himself." Do you hear how the tone in this guy's voice changes like he's just
talking about the most incredible thing that has ever happened ever and I know
that to people who are in this religion it probably is the most incredible thing
that's ever happened ever, but it's like cool, so this God guy made up a bunch of stuff
that he really doesn't like he made a bunch of people who really really love
the stuff that he hates he punishes them for the stuff that he hates and then for
some reason in this strange universe that he made up you have to kill
somebody for the stuff that he hates to not be bad anymore hey don't worry silly
humans I the immortal all-knowing being who made you as infinite power will just
kill myself but then also I won't die I'm not gonna actually die I'm gonna
kill myself to pay for your sins but I'm not actually dying because I'm immortal
and all-knowing. You guys my choker got flipped around and you did not even tell
me! How rude! I feel like the phrase died for our sins gets thrown around so much
in these religious conversations that people just hear it so much it becomes
so familiar and they stop taking a second to really think about it but at
the same time I feel like it's an aspect of Christianity that
you you can't even justify like you can't justify why that was the price
that had to be paid you can't justify why it was such a big sacrifice for this
God to do it himself when he knew exactly what would happen and knew
exactly how it would turn out and knew that no life would actually be taken for
this do you I mean nothing in this to me is impressive nothing in this to me
shows an amazing character in a God to be honest this just sounds like a very
strangely written story. "And this sort of whole scandal is really summed up well
in Romans chapter 6 Romans 6:23 famously says for the wages of sin is death but
the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord it's here that we
begin to see that God's wrath actually has a big part to play in the message
and story of the gospel." It's all arbitrary if God has the power to
control anything and whatever he wants then he just made up that the punishment
for sin is death and then he also made up that his own death slash non death
could somehow pay for everybody else's but also it doesn't count unless you
shower him with affection and attempt to live your life as close to this badly
recorded history of his son slashed his own life as you can at best this story
explains a very very abusive relationship and at worst it's just not
real, which is the best for me personally but... y'know. "Because at the very heart
of the gospel message at the very heart of Jesus's life death and resurrection
we have to understand that because of sin because of the sin that God hated
and that marred us because of that sin..." Because of the sin that God made up, just
to clarify. "Because of that sin, wrath is what we deserved but grace
is what we got." This is one of the things that makes me cringe the most about
religion and Christianity in general, this whole I'm not deserving thing
really just makes me feel sick. You have nothing that you need to be forgiven for
but I any kind of higher power this is where I would definitely say I'm a
humanist because if you've done something to harm other people around
you that you need to be forgiven for, then you should be working with the
people around you or helping make the world a better place as best you can to
make up for the bad things that you've done.
You should also just make the world a better place anyway cuz that's like a
good thing to do, but you know what I mean? I don't think people should live
their life trying to appeal to some kind of higher power that may or may not
exist. You know that the people around you in your life exist for real and so
if you can do something to make things better for them then I think that's what
people should be focusing on instead of all this concern about I know it's stuff
that people really believe exists but stuff that we just can't know exists.
"So it's not necessarily that we become thankful for God's wrath but we have to
understand that if God wasn't wrathful then he couldn't be graceful." I think and
I certainly hope that people understand that something or someone like this God
does not have to be bad in order for you to appreciate the good something that is
claiming to be kind does not have to be wrathful in order for you to really
appreciate its kindness. "And it is by understanding God's wrath that we
actually are able to more deeply appreciate his grace that was poured out
through Jesus on the cross." And yeah that's actually the end of his video
there so the conclusion was... Jesus? So as for what I personally take away
from this I don't enjoy people feeling like they
need to kind of grasp at straws to justify these bad things that are in
their religion. The mere fact that he acknowledges that this concept of an
angry god makes him so uncomfortable shows that there's something very wrong
with it. If you think that God is allowed to decide what is good and bad in the
world but you see him himself commit these huge genocides murder people
torture people and that makes you feel uncomfortable why do you think that is? Are you really just purely uncomfortable that these people are
sinners or is there maybe something else going on that you have an innate sense
of morality that you know better than your own God does? If God is this
wrathful and Christians feel as though they want to live like God and live in a
godly way then Christians themselves should be wrathful. And I know that a lot
of the response would be 'oh it's Jesus that I want to live like'
that's probably a topic for for another time but you can just go and flip
your tables then or whatever he does. So if anyone takes anything away
from this video I would just hope that if it's something anybody struggling
with or is still afraid of even if you're atheist maybe and it's something
that's ingrained in you and afraid of, it's something that you can overcome and
it doesn't have to be a part of how you see the world. You don't have to believe
in these terrible things. There's enough terrible things going on in the world
that this does not have to be one of them. I don't know why I'm laughing,
that's horrible. So that is going to be it for today's video thank you everybody
so much for watching if you want to check me out on Patreon it would be a
huge help to get some more support on there, and yeah I think that's gonna be
it for today I will see you in the next video where I will be talking about
something else. Byeee!
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