Zhenia, do you have any other offices besides the one in Kiev
No, we have only one office, and that one is in Kiev, and that's where are whole team is.
Here and a little bit farther down the street.
Are you from Kiev?
Yes, I was born and raised in Kiev
And what do you like most about Kiev?
It is a beautiful city
nice people
tasty food
strong team, which I could build a strong business with.
Did you want to live somewhere else, except Kiev? Will you be able?
Maybe somewhere in Europe.
I've been to Asia, been to U.S, can't say it was comfortable.
I would probably just travel.
Well then let's go check out your office.
Let's go.
You travel a lot.
How long are you absent, absent from the office?
I stay mostly in Kiev. Maybe a couple weeks every year
So most of the time you are in the office?
Yes, most of the time in the office.
And how many hours do you work, devote to the office?
How often I can meet you while working?
In the office? Almost all of the time.
but..
It's understandable that I work almost all the time.
I don't divide work and personal life.
What motivates you, what drives you at work?
Probably, like for most, it's results.
When you understand that
your efforts bring results, some profit
that's, probably, the best motivation.
Zhenia, there is a tradition going around,
many affiliate marketing companies
like to hide their real location.
Some companies from Ukraine or Russia are writing that they are
from UK, Scotland, Amsterdam.
But you in CPAMATICA like
like I understand don't hide your real location.
No, we don't hide our location. We are in Kiev
we often invite partners to our offices.
We invite both advertisers and webmasters,
there's no hidden truth.
So, for instance, affiliates you work with can arrange a meeting, and meet you in person.
Yes, of course. We invite people to come to us,
to chat, drink coffee, tea, play tennis,
and chat about work and life.
Then please tell the story of CPAMATICA?
Were you there at the beginning?
Yes
We started in year 2015, in January.
So, it will be out four years anniversary this year.
We started from arbitrage,
drove from different sources to dating, to dating offers,
and then
after some time we decided
that we proved ourself,
why shouldn't we try to create our own affiliate network.
And after it we started to do affiliate network.
Then there were lots of changes of business.
Now it looks different, as it was one or three years ago
but basis, name,
part of the team are still from the 2015-2016 years.
When did you drive traffic by your own last time?
Pretty long ago, a couple year ago, probably.
And are you able to launch a campaign now?
I think after some preparation I will try. I think, yes.
Good. I read, that
you were nominated as the best CPA network
in the International Performance Marketing Award.
I wanted to ask,
how did that happen?
We communicate with lots of rating agencies,
tell them about our network, about us,
and participate in nominations.
And if you win will you go to London to get the award?
Yes, why not?
What I have read in description of your network
"It is not just a "network
it's a thing that makes you look more professional.
t's all about creating experiences
that transform affiliates, brands, grow businesses
and make people's lives better."
How do you change people's lives for better,
what do you think?
For partners we try, probably it sounds banal,
to make them happier, to help them make more money,
to make them feel more satisfied.
The same we are trying to do for the whole our team, because
a team is a group people you spend the biggest part of your life,
40-50 hours weekly, and
you should be satisfied as high as possible with
what you are doing and with people around you.
And from a finance point of view will this year be the best for a СPAMATICA?
Yes, each year we grow 2 or 3 times,
and in the year 2018 we should be able to grow approximately two and a half times
What is your personal motivation as a CEO of the company?
Motivation, my motivation like I already said is…
I mean, what's your finance motivation,
I mean is it based on some figures, achievements, goals in Network?
I don't ask about amount.
I'm interested in your financial motivation.
Certainly, the percentage of what the company earns.
So, you have just a fixed interest from the company earnings?
Yes.
Tell me,
I always wanted to know,
what is main object of expenditure
of a network?
Is this your team's salary?
Network is percent based,
so the main part of money goes to affiliates.
I mean company's profit.
We invest lots of money to the team,
workers, money reward and in something
non-material.
We often travel,
for example, a few months ago we returned from Carpathians,
in the year 2016, we travelled to Andorra.
Company paid for everything,
this was additional motivation for guys to accomplish a goal.
So, we link some events to
achievement of financial performance.
And I hope that based on the results of year 2019
the whole team will have 1 week or 10 days duration trip.
Awesome.
What are the most profitable offers?
Globally speaking, what brings you most of money?
In affiliate business marginality is almost the same,
we primarily work with dating, so dating offers.
As far as I know, the typical margin is about 20 %
Up to 20%
You said,
that business has changed.
The network is different
from how it was originally created.
You became a part of Genesis holding.
Primary business was established as part of holding company Genesis, and,
now it's a part of holding company Genesis.
So you raised investment there, company invested in you
or you worked there?
Originally, I worked on the other project,
then I started doing traffic arbitrage, and
nside of the project, inside of the holding, inside of Genesis
we created СPAMATICA.
How many people work for СPAMATICA now?
Forty people
Do you personally approve
employees before hiring?
I attend almost every interview
What kind of people you will never hire to СPAMATICA?
We take hiring very seriously.
It's always easier
to not hire somebody at the beginning, then dismiss him later.
Nobody likes dismissals.
Not those who dismiss, not those who are dismissed.
So, we are doing our best
to be attentive and rough as possible with hiring process.
Whom we won't hire?
Actuality, there are lots of criteria we check.
A person who didn't approve oneself at a previous working places,
we hire lots of people without experience,
those who want to try themself in the internet marketing
or in development.
In this case we will check achievements in a university.
Was he engaged in something or just attended lectures.
If we speak about professionals,
so if he didn't stand out at a previous working place,
didn't do anything interesting and unusual,
so what is the chance that he will do something at our place?
Relatively low.
Well, and many other factors.
Did it ever happen that an employee quit the job
while still carrying a valuable piece of info?
No, nothing crucial ever happened.
Not long ago there was a conference in Kiev,
and from what I know you were there.
you like to visit conferences in general
So, what is the point
for you to go to such kind of conferences?
Many attend all kinds of conferences, some attend to gain new knowledge.
But I see conferences mostly as networking.
What I mean, you can meet some interesting guys
which you would happily work with, maybe some advertisers
or webmasters.
The second thing is that going to this kind of conferences could help you motivate
some employees t hat work in this area of expertise.
Often conference is the great motivation, from you work point of view,
for instance, you see the same human being with two legs and arms doing ten times more than you.
You understand that you are so far away from your ceiling, and
often it motivates you to do incredible things.
I was motivated by one of the first conferences I attended
to be engaged in arbitrage,
to start driving traffic and do it more qualitative work I usually tried.
Do you estimate somehow effectivity of conference attendance?
We tried, in years 2015-2016.
Now it's very difficult, because
if you spend lots of money, travel a lot
and it can be a very delayed effect.
Results can be in half of a year, a year or in one year and half.
Some ideas you absorbed, can transform in something
and outcome can bring money,
but direct influence is very difficult to measure.
Did you see any rise in registration after conference? Do you check these parameters?
Very often we meet partners that were registered long ago but by some reason don't work.
Also, we do our best to gain a lot for our buying team, they are engaged in traffic
and that's why it's very difficult to estimate direct influence of conferences.
Usually, how many people you do you send to a conference?
Depends on a conference, last time we went to Las-Vegas,
we had 4 people,
but In Kiev we had 6-7, maybe more.
But 2 to 5 is the average number.
And what is the price to place booth on international conferences?
Again, it changes from the location. But probably in average
we spend 6-12$ thousand dollars
Is that only for placement?
No, it's for the booth placement and all the printed materials
But there's travel and hotel price,
so 15-12 thousand, is that how many dollars it takes?
About that, but again
it changes from the number of people we have.
And how many conferences do you travel to yearly?
If we speak about abroad ones, then about five six a year.
As I understand, the main goal of any conference it is to attract new affiliates.
Do you estimate how much does it cost you
to attract active affiliate, that will start drive traffic
through all marketing channels?
We have analytics we tried to use for estimating.
Yes, there is such thing. We try to analyse.
There is CRM with help of which we check statistics.
There are some attraction channels, which we can track
with help of some tags, sources,
we try to count engaging,
for example, if this is placement in some blog,
or some paid rating,
where we pay for it.
If this is free, how much efforts we need to put out?
Essentially, we consider such numbers.
And what is the most effective way to bring in affiliates, that you know of?
Most effective, simply personal chatting.
You mean conferences?
Conferences or meeting the person
face to face.
When someone comes into the office it's usually a partner.
It's much easier to start working with someone when you know them,
then when somebody has high rating,
but you don't know them personally.
But if you personally know a person,
met him,
ate with him, had fun,
it becomes so much easier to work with such person.
Which percent of registered affiliates
eventually converts to those who
really drives you traffic?
Probably 10-15 percents.
If count later, it's difficult to say numbers.
And do you have an inside team on monetisation of traffic.
Yes, we also work with traffic personally.
Do you feel the temptation
to analyse your affiliates' top feeds?
We work by our own rules,
our methods,
and the way we do stuff don't get too close to affiliates.
So, does this statement apply to you,
that 20% of affiliates
make 80% of all your profits.
Yes, if not more.
So most of the profits comes from top affiliates.
Yeah, and that's how many companies make money.
They have one thing that makes most of the profits,
others are additional amount.
But that doesn't change anything for as,
any person even if they generate a very small income is important for us,
in the end they can grow,
and we had stuff like that happen.
Probably, because he wasn't open enough,
he works with some other guys,
and he works with them in bigger volumes,
he hasn't moved these volumes to us yet.
That is way, we do our best to pay attention to all partners,
and not only to those who make 80 % of profit.
We talked about affiliates,
but I would like to talk about the other side of this chain. Advertisers.
I was always interested in
how one can get to an affiliate network with an offer.
What I mean, I'm an advertiser,
I write that a have an offer then what happens?
We have a team of business development
that process applications, and most of the time
they search different things
as how to prepare for conference, where again will travel guys
as from affiliate team, as from business development team.
They research as well in LinkedIn,
lots of researches are done in the niche we work with
and in new niches that we might be potentially interested in.
When incoming applications arrive,
and this happens almost every day,
we communicate,
and if this corresponds to the niches in which we work,
we understand that we can potentially generate traffic,
do not waste someone else's or our time.
If we with the guys understand that this is not our niche,
we just write that, unfortunately, we are not able to work with them.
If guys are from the niches that are interesting to us,
with which we work with now,
then we communicate, discuss terms, start budgets and launch.
As a rule, we work without prepayment.
But you do check the offers?
You do look at the flow?
Yes, of course,
we have an internal team which deals with traffic driving.
This way we can understand right away
if this is promising,
if this corresponds the realities of the market.
Often there are cases, for example,
when we have been working with dating or nutra for a long time.
Sometimes under dating we see non-optimal landing pages
and we can offer following:
"We have experience, there are such and such options.
According to our experience this will work better,
give a better EPC than those you have".
These are our recommendations. Some listen, some not.
Did you try to be an advertiser,
I mean create inhouse offers
We have our own inhouse products
which we offer to partners
By partners you mean affiliates?
Yes.
What is special in working with your own offers?
Unique offer always worked good on the market,
if you can offer something your competitors don't have.
Nowadays competition in CPA networks and affiliate networks
is mainly in technical backgrounds
but not in pay-offs,
when you can give
faster redirect or more stable servers.
These are some kinds of decisions that can potentially increase partners' EPC,
and this is what is important.
In total, product that is the thing you can try
to do better, based on your experience, based on partners' actions,
and we can attract partners this way
not because of 5 % payments increase
but because of more interesting offers.
And for you from a company point of view, this is more profitable?
Yes, and that's because we don't work
only in the first cycle we work in both,
the first cycle being network, and the second one being advertiser.
And are you planning to make more products, to move in this direction?
Yes.
And more about advertisers,
did it ever happen
that an advertiser didn't pay you?
Yes, that happened.
And what did you do when that happened?
Count out the risks,
the percent of profit, and if we understand that
there is no way we will get that money,
we just plan according to this information.
In some cases, payments can be obtained by negotiating,
by communication,
we try to understand why it happened,
But some cases are hopeless.
There are cases when an advertiser didn't not plan his opportunities
and offered payments initially above the market,
and then realised that this traffic would never pay off and backed up.
And in that moment, how does an affiliate feel?
In this case we take the lead,
as what can partner do in this case?
This is our risk as partner network, as a business.
Do you include these risks in a margin of each offer, correct?
Yes, this is not significant risks.
It can make to a percent per year, even less.
Well then, there are a lot of interesting about the offers.
I know that you specialised in dating offers,
and that's very interesting
how they really work,
what I mean if user can really get a service he or she wants?
Dating, I have to say that's big part of the market,
it doesn't consist only of products,
such as adult,
where there is no background,
where there is no, for example, real girls.
Dating is also a completely clear products,
when people really get what they really wanted to get.
What is the ratio?
Ratio of offers quantity or of market?
Your numbers of offers.
Hard to say, but I think I can say
that most customers got what they want from the offers.
But you can chat and meet women using this website.
This more about mainstream dating where
it is expected that there are girls who want to meet and there are men who want to meet.
Unlike for example Casual, where, where, let's say, the percentage of girls is not very high.
So, there's bots, or nothing at all?
We are not planning and not going to produce products related to adult dating,
it's not interesting for us,
the main purpose there is credit cards submits.
A user submits his card, and then it is not so important what will happen with a user itself,
an advertiser can further rebill him,
and so everything is about how long he will be able to use chargebacks.
On one of your network reviews,
I read the following:
You do not come very often
across networks which have direct blackhat offers
but CPAmatica do have such offers
and also allow spam traffic for those offers"
This is open review in the Internet. Is that still the case?
Or this review was written a couple of years ago and now this is not relevant information.
That was an experiment, we had advertisers that wanted to get this kind of traffic,
we don't work with them any more,
so I must say that's not a working fact anymore.
What offers according to your philosophy will never appear in your Network,
in your niches?
First off all,
we check earning opportunities for us, and partners,
it builds relationships.
Those that will not appear,
probably, contradict my personal convictions.
We will never work with the product in which
users have to give their last money for some opportunity,
for example, to heal from some diseases.
This is like a taboo for me,
I will never work with such advertisers,
with such scams.
Zhenia, then how do you build a company were people want to work?
You start company like anything else from yourself.
You must enjoy what you are doing,
and other will enjoy it too.
Listen to other people's wishes and count out your steps.
Very good, but from what I understand this is your main co-worker.
Yes, Petr
Petr, yes. Does he work here from the company establishment?
No, he's been here about 2 years, but he's grown a little bit
What is his job title?
Mascot
Mascot
let's play?
Ok. Why not?
Wow! yeah! I need to get the hang,
I haven't played for a long time. Let's do it.
Whom do you consider
the main competitor of CPAMATICA?
If we speak about affiliate networks, those who work with dating.
There are lots of networks working in our segment. I can't distinguish somebody,
it's necessary to try to be different in payments and technical solutions.
What is the main difference between CPAMATICA and competitors from your point of view?
Probably talking about payments is not that interesting.
But we do try to do anything
to raise the EPC of partners,
from simple things
to our offers,
our decisions which will
make more money to us and partners.
From what you see, what do you think is the number one affiliate network in the world?
There are some affiliate networks which work in atypical for us spheres.
That's why number one depends on niche.
But similar to you by profile?
Personally, I like Advidi.
I think, lot's of people working with traffic wonder,
which sources give the biggest volume?
Adwords,
Facebook
and now push-notification work super actively.
Is push-notification starting to gain some popularity?
Well, in these recent times, yes, it's quite actual.
I've seen lots of time that you emphasised as an advantage having of your own tracking system.
Did develop it from scratch or use something as a basis?
We did everything from scratch.
We started from Husoffers.
At some point we understood that we would pay
about 6000 dollars monthly.
Then it was quite a lot of money for the tracking system
and we decided to do it ourselves.
In fact, when you create your tracking system you think to yourself that you
would do it in half a year, then in 9 months,
and then it's simply "wow, everything is ready."
In fact, we are still doing some features,
and this is good because
for the top partners, for those who generate good volumes,
we put the finishing touch on some additional things they ask about.
It's usually more difficult to do this with inbox system.
If we speak about our own tracking,
we can totally relay on how redirects work,
how servers work.
And some additional things that we need
from finance point of view, income accounting,
and from the partner point of view, for example,
some additional features, some additional possibilities for redirecting,
this we can do.
And we can, as I've already said, do some additional things,
if we see that we have been working with a person for quite a long time
and he generates large volumes,
then we can develop some additional things.
So, you mean if affiliate gives big volumes,
you can customise you tracking system,
let's say, additionally deploy a server in some region.
Yes, it's not an issue.
This can be a server, or some features that affiliate needs additionally.
Obviously, this may take some additional time,
it depends on the complexity of a task,
but if it gives money boost, additional income, then why not.
You play tennis better than me. Apparently, you practice it often here?
Guys often hold competitions,
as among the team and with other companies.
I play sometime.
What other sports do you do?
Snowboarding,
sometimes cycling
What else do you do in your spare time?
I like traveling.
I try on weekend, if I have 2 days
or to take one more day off,
and have a ride somewhere.
What is favorite country?
Beside of Ukraine, of course.
I've been to States many times. 5 times, probably.
But it was more because of job, conferences,
meeting with partners.
I've been lots of times to France, Italy.
Recently I traveled to Switzerland. Liked it so much.
Was it a business trip or your personal trip?
Personal.
With girlfriend and friends.
Do you plan any event today?
Today is event and birthday of one of our team member.
We always congratulate, buy present.
Company buys.
And unspoken tradition a person brings something in the morning,
let's say cake or pies.
Something we can eat together with the team on a lunch.
And what this event is timed to?
Today we accomplished plan,
we have annual and quarterly plans.
Now we accomplished third quarter,
including September,
and today we are going to sum up the quarterly results.
And always after it we have some party.
Just having a party is not very funny,
it can be boring for 3 years,
so we often do some thematic ones. Today we are having party inspired by 80s.
I mean with suits, with all attributions
and I hope that it will be fun.
You said that you set annual plans for the team. But what will be next, do you think about perspective?
How do you see company in 5 years, for example?
We tried but their relevance often changes. For, example,
I think many companies even didn't think that they would work with cloaking and facebook
would be much more difficult.
Probably, they also made plan for the next 5 years
but eventually they can differ so much.
Even in 2-3 years, not speaking about 5 years.
But we made some plans, definitely.
What trends do you see for the next year?
Offers? Traffic sources?
What do think will work?
I think, the biggest traffic sources will remain the same, they have huge audience.
And anyway, either way traffic will remain the same,
probably offers will just change, attitude will be more clear, honest,
will be more compliance with sources policies.
It's obvious that Google and Facebook will always remain.
SEO will be there, and e-mail will remain e-mail,
other sources will also stay, just working methods will change.
Somewhere marge will decrease, somewhere will increase.
We have evergreen niches, everybody knows about them,
there are dating,
body modifications like weight loss, and a human always want to make money for free.
For instance, cryptocurrency, everybody still talks about it, but less than before.
Did you have any cryptocurrency offers?
We did it, but I can't say we earned lots of money.
So, do you see dynamics of attitude changes to make approaches clearer?
I think that everyone will work clearer and more honest.
Now we see that e-commerce works fine,
this relatively clear thing when compared to what worked well inthe early to mid of year 17.
Numbers,
numbers.
I'd like to have some numbers.
For example, what is the biggest revenue brought by single affiliate within a day?
I already told, that top partners can differ very much from average one.
The biggest achievement we had $18,000 in one day.
18,000 dollars. One partner.
One partner one day
And he did not disappear after it? Did he drive traffic stably?
He did, but obviously that was a peak.
Great. Let's give our viewers some bonus from CPAMATICA.
So, you will have new affiliates and they will set your new records.
I am for it. You see.
I offer this, those who will watch this interview, will write
to a manager, or register with us in the affiliate program.
The first payment
or if you are already registered the next one
the next one will be 10% off.
What should be done?
I think, it's just enough to say that
you watched video interview on channel Zorbas media
and this will be enough for a manager.
Great. So, register, or if you are already did it, start driving. Subscribe to the channel.
For more infomation >> A.J.N Is Playing An M.T.A Subway Games. - Duration: 13:29. 
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